Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-10-2010, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCoyote
You're all forgetting ONE thing.

Seven of Nine was a "situational" crew member. She wasn't Star Fleet sanctioned. She wasn't a member OF Star Fleet, and she never went through the academy.

If you were John Smith, and got turned into 2 by 4, and then rescued, Star Fleet would *NOT* let you call yourself 2 by 4. You would still LEGALLY be John Smith, and if 2 by 4 made it easier for you to "cope" and "relate" then you aren't MENTALLY READY for active duty.

It isn't a hugfest, it is the Federation, and before they stick a phaser in your hand they're going to make sure your melon doesn't have any squishy spots that would make you set it to "extra crispy".
To be fair, if you're a liberated Borg they're probably more worried about hte parts that aren't squishy anymore...

But even so. Sure, you're John Smith, of Chiron Beta Prime. You were assimilated at Wolf 359 at age 19, a fresh faced enlisted man on the USS Failboat. Almost 30 years later you are liberated after being captured at the attack on Vega colony. You've spent more than half your life in the collective. You go through the various starfleet psychological examinations, they clear you for duty, and put you through to the Academy. You get to the first day of class, and the guy beside you says "Hey dude, I'm Bob, but my friends call me Buzz. What's your name." You answer "John Smith, but my friends call me Two of Four." is that any less legitimate? Does Bob automatically have mental problems because he goes by Buzz instead of Bob?

I have no problems with borg designations under this argument.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-10-2010, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
To be fair, if you're a liberated Borg they're probably more worried about hte parts that aren't squishy anymore...

But even so. Sure, you're John Smith, of Chiron Beta Prime. You were assimilated at Wolf 359 at age 19, a fresh faced enlisted man on the USS Failboat. Almost 30 years later you are liberated after being captured at the attack on Vega colony. You've spent more than half your life in the collective. You go through the various starfleet psychological examinations, they clear you for duty, and put you through to the Academy. You get to the first day of class, and the guy beside you says "Hey dude, I'm Bob, but my friends call me Buzz. What's your name." You answer "John Smith, but my friends call me Two of Four." is that any less legitimate? Does Bob automatically have mental problems because he goes by Buzz instead of Bob?

I have no problems with borg designations under this argument.
Nor do I, as the person in question acknowledges that he IS John Smith, and that his "nick name" is 2 by 4. My arguement is against the likelihood of Liberated Borg who still fully embrace the Borg designation as their only identification.

ANY Liberated Borg should be under constant suspect, yes, even Picard. How many times in the past have nanites gone rogue, reactived implants, beacons, the works?

I just can't see Star Fleet not only returning to active duty, but giving starship command to someone who is still more Borg than Human. Artifical sentient life-forms like Data can and do adjust to situations based on learning, human interaction, and willingness to change and adapt. A KEY role for any Captain.

If you refuse to acknowledge that you were John Smith, still dress in all-borg attire and speak in monotones while being addressed at 8 x 10 of the Glossy region, you are not fit for duty.

Buzz might be born Bob, but he has ALWAYS been "Buzz."

2 x 4 might be born John Smith, but he was *turned into* 2 x 4.

Not the same thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-10-2010, 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCoyote
Nor do I, as the person in question acknowledges that he IS John Smith, and that his "nick name" is 2 by 4. My arguement is against the likelihood of Liberated Borg who still fully embrace the Borg designation as their only identification.

ANY Liberated Borg should be under constant suspect, yes, even Picard. How many times in the past have nanites gone rogue, reactived implants, beacons, the works?

I just can't see Star Fleet not only returning to active duty, but giving starship command to someone who is still more Borg than Human. Artifical sentient life-forms like Data can and do adjust to situations based on learning, human interaction, and willingness to change and adapt. A KEY role for any Captain.

If you refuse to acknowledge that you were John Smith, still dress in all-borg attire and speak in monotones while being addressed at 8 x 10 of the Glossy region, you are not fit for duty.

Buzz might be born Bob, but he has ALWAYS been "Buzz."

2 x 4 might be born John Smith, but he was *turned into* 2 x 4.

Not the same thing.
They wouldn't put ensigns in charge of ships either, but it seems the war has changed those rules.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-10-2010, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croyd View Post
They wouldn't put ensigns in charge of ships either, but it seems the war has changed those rules.
technically, they didn't put an ensign in charge, after the tutorial you are promoted to leutinant, when you are officially put in charge of your ship ....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-10-2010, 07:24 AM
My Borg character's bio explains that he was rescued from a disabled Sphere by the curious crew of a science vessel. Unfortunately there was no record of him, and the head science officer had a twisted sense of humor, so they named him "Disco Nec Ted" or Disco for short.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-10-2010, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCoyote
If you refuse to acknowledge that you were John Smith, still dress in all-borg attire and speak in monotones while being addressed at 8 x 10 of the Glossy region, you are not fit for duty.
Really? You're not from a small town, are you? One of the people I worked with in my hometown was nicknamed Coco (dunno why, he just was). His real name was Roger. At work one day a more senior boss was looking for him, walked through the work area calling for Roger. Called him 5 or 6 times, guy didn't respond. Finially his immediate supervisor finally got his attention:
Supervior: "Coco, he's looking for you!"
Coco: "No, he's looking for Roger."
Supervisor "That's you knucklehead."
Coco: "Oh yeah."

Quote:
Buzz might be born Bob, but he has ALWAYS been "Buzz."

2 x 4 might be born John Smith, but he was *turned into* 2 x 4.

Not the same thing.
No, Bob was born Bob, he was turned into Buzz, probably sometime ion school by his friends who didn't want to use his real name.

And that also ignores the people who do not HAVE non-borg identities. Borg assimilate a whole colony, on some world, including a woman who's pregnant, mere days from giving birth, or perhaps the child was onyl a few hours old and the parent's had decided on a name and filled out the birth certificate yet. The child has been a borg, essentially, from birth. has never had a human name, and even if records can be found indicating who the child's parents are (let's go with Mr. & Mrs. Smith) there is no name on record for the child. Their entire identity is Twelve of Twenty. They were captured after First Contact and liberated from the collective, they have had years and have acclimated to society. So now they've joined Star Fleet and they get to the front desk and start filling out the application and it gets to name. So they filll out the form with their name that they have refered to themselves their entire life: Twelve of Twenty Smith.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-10-2010, 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croyd View Post
They wouldn't put ensigns in charge of ships either, but it seems the war has changed those rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotmagnet
technically, they didn't put an ensign in charge, after the tutorial you are promoted to leutinant, when you are officially put in charge of your ship ....
We could go round-n-round this all day:

I can bring up an example where a night janitor is cleaning up an office and a head of a major corporation (with no public stocks) makes him head of the corporation. (Maybe to escape some scandal).

Actually, you are promoted to Lieutenant BECAUSE you proved yourself in the heart of battle and are given a ship to command.

So, it isn't exactly like my example. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-10-2010, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCoyote
Nor do I, as the person in question acknowledges that he IS John Smith, and that his "nick name" is 2 by 4. My arguement is against the likelihood of Liberated Borg who still fully embrace the Borg designation as their only identification.

ANY Liberated Borg should be under constant suspect, yes, even Picard. How many times in the past have nanites gone rogue, reactived implants, beacons, the works?

I just can't see Star Fleet not only returning to active duty, but giving starship command to someone who is still more Borg than Human. Artifical sentient life-forms like Data can and do adjust to situations based on learning, human interaction, and willingness to change and adapt. A KEY role for any Captain.

If you refuse to acknowledge that you were John Smith, still dress in all-borg attire and speak in monotones while being addressed at 8 x 10 of the Glossy region, you are not fit for duty.

Buzz might be born Bob, but he has ALWAYS been "Buzz."

2 x 4 might be born John Smith, but he was *turned into* 2 x 4.

Not the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
Really? You're not from a small town, are you? One of the people I worked with in my hometown was nicknamed Coco (dunno why, he just was). His real name was Roger. At work one day a more senior boss was looking for him, walked through the work area calling for Roger. Called him 5 or 6 times, guy didn't respond. Finially his immediate supervisor finally got his attention:
Supervior: "Coco, he's looking for you!"
Coco: "No, he's looking for Roger."
Supervisor "That's you knucklehead."
Coco: "Oh yeah."



No, Bob was born Bob, he was turned into Buzz, probably sometime ion school by his friends who didn't want to use his real name.

And that also ignores the people who do not HAVE non-borg identities. Borg assimilate a whole colony, on some world, including a woman who's pregnant, mere days from giving birth, or perhaps the child was onyl a few hours old and the parent's had decided on a name and filled out the birth certificate yet. The child has been a borg, essentially, from birth. has never had a human name, and even if records can be found indicating who the child's parents are (let's go with Mr. & Mrs. Smith) there is no name on record for the child. Their entire identity is Twelve of Twenty. They were captured after First Contact and liberated from the collective, they have had years and have acclimated to society. So now they've joined Star Fleet and they get to the front desk and start filling out the application and it gets to name. So they filll out the form with their name that they have refered to themselves their entire life: Twelve of Twenty Smith.
You also have to take into account those that either have been kidnapped at a young age or "born" into the Borg collective. (You remember that episode of TNG where the Borg had babies with immplants stuffed into sock drawers?)

It may not be "militarily-acceptable", but this IS a bit of fiction thrown into the franchise. There are many reasons to explain why someone wants to be called "Five" and have him mentally fit for command.

Also : trump card = Don't recruits have numbers attached to them? Don't we all have social security? Computers work best to sort personnel out by using a serial number rather than a name; it is more effiecent. Militaries like people who are effiecent and not very individualistic (they try to grind those traits from you in boot camp, do they not?)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-10-2010, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
Really? You're not from a small town, are you? One of the people I worked with in my hometown was nicknamed Coco (dunno why, he just was). His real name was Roger. At work one day a more senior boss was looking for him, walked through the work area calling for Roger. Called him 5 or 6 times, guy didn't respond. Finially his immediate supervisor finally got his attention:
Supervior: "Coco, he's looking for you!"
Coco: "No, he's looking for Roger."
Supervisor "That's you knucklehead."
Coco: "Oh yeah."
The irony of using this argument with me, is just delicous for reasons you can't possibly know, but absolutely tickle me.

But as for my rebuttle.

A) The argument isn't about those who have never been non-borg. That person was born and raised borg, saved, and then had to go to the academy. THAT person is a BORG. It isn't about them. It is about those who have been assimilated, returned to duty, and are still using Borg designation.

2) Liberated Borg should have to go through EXTENSIVE psychological testing. Again, not born-and-raised-Borg, liberated.

D) The numbers of people using Borg designation, would far outweigh the number of born borg, rescued, who not only make it to and THROUGH starfleet, but onto Captain a ship.

and lastly

7) Captain Coco sounds like a breakfast cereal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-10-2010, 08:20 AM
1. You sir are a traitor to the Federation
2. You sir are a traitor to mankind
3. Roleplayers have a funny smell to them....like cabbage
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:04 PM.