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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
This isnt a dig, this is an honest question. Based on your staff's understanding or concept of a true open, objective based, expansive area, PvP war dynamic and campaign. Based on experience in playing in or dveloping a true war caimpaign. Do you guys think you have or could have it in you based on current or avilable software, hardware, wet-ware(thats people for those not knowing) to pull it off...to even warrant trying?

If you feel its warranted and worth it, but not sure how to pull it off, would you be willing to discuss with us our desires for how to?

Who on the staff likes to do things that that require he/she pit themselves against others in activities that sometims requires the sheddin o fblood, the acquiring of scrapes and bruises, to look within themslves and find the motivation to endure pain and suffering for one more minute, for one more instant, just to go one more foot, one more inch...its not even for the victory...its just to hold the other soff just long eneough to hopefully give themselves and/or their team a shot at victory.

That mentallity and spirit needs to be captured in jar...if a campaign model is to be fleshed out, thats where the staff is going to need to go, crack open the lid and take big whiff of that for motivation! Can you smell what the war is cookin'!?!?!?!?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Maybe if anything - a scoreboard counter that shows who is dominating in space and on ground.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-09-2010, 01:37 PM
Short answer: not happening

STO is aimed at the casual Fed PvE player, making up 65-85% of the population I guess, perhaps even more. Not a good business decision to spend manpower and ressources on stuff for the minority.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-09-2010, 01:50 PM
well right now we have the battlegrounds that attempt to capture this feel, they just well.. aren't very good. still the templates there and hopefully we'll see better warzones in the future
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-09-2010, 01:53 PM
You also have to look at Cryptic's track record on this.

I mean City of Heroes + City of Villains. Is that not a perfect setting for a true faction war? What would be more factional than superheroes vs supervillains?

When COV came out, however, the "faction war" was limited to three fairly simple and cheesy PvP maps and a "just for fun" arena.


Then Champions Online came out and didn't even bother doing that much. They put in some token PvP arena style matches but there was very little to it.



STO, in its present form, is actually the most aggressive PvP attempt I've seen Cryptic do. I often shake my head at Cryptic's designs because they create these great game engines with interesting mechanics but they always blow it when it comes to implementing the kind of gaming systems that could really make it shine.

Superheroes vs supervillians. The Federation vs the Klingons. You can't get a more clear cut case for an epic battleground than this, but Cryptic can't seem to grasp the opportunity they're missing. My guess is that STO will be another Cryptic cookie cutter game and they'll move on to their next project, which is probably going to be another tantalizing MMORPG in an interesting setting with sound mechanics implemented as another PvE cookie cutter that fades into relative obscurity within about 6 months. I bought STO with full realization that I would probably play it for 2 months and then quit. That's just the way you have to approach a Cryptic game. They're good, but they never have the game elements required for long term gameplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-09-2010, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
You also have to look at Cryptic's track record on this.

I mean City of Heroes + City of Villains. Is that not a perfect setting for a true faction war? What would be more factional than superheroes vs supervillains?

When COV came out, however, the "faction war" was limited to three fairly simple and cheesy PvP maps and a "just for fun" arena.


Then Champions Online came out and didn't even bother doing that much. They put in some token PvP arena style matches but there was very little to it.



STO, in its present form, is actually the most aggressive PvP attempt I've seen Cryptic do. I often shake my head at Cryptic's designs because they create these great game engines with interesting mechanics but they always blow it when it comes to implementing the kind of gaming systems that could really make it shine.

Superheroes vs supervillians. The Federation vs the Klingons. You can't get a more clear cut case for an epic battleground than this, but Cryptic can't seem to grasp the opportunity they're missing. My guess is that STO will be another Cryptic cookie cutter game and they'll move on to their next project, which is probably going to be another tantalizing MMORPG in an interesting setting with sound mechanics implemented as another PvE cookie cutter that fades into relative obscurity within about 6 months. I bought STO with full realization that I would probably play it for 2 months and then quit. That's just the way you have to approach a Cryptic game. They're good, but they never have the game elements required for long term gameplay.
I can see it now:

"Angles vs Demons" An epic struggle betwen good and evil fought over Earth leaving the fate of man-kind and the whole universe dependent on you. What side will you choose? What role will you play? Complete in-depth story driven content, be amazed by visually rich PvE and PvP environements?

In "Angels and Demons", experience many areas of Earth, the Heavens and the bowels of Hell as you do your part in the conclusion of the '[i]Final Days[i]". See well known cities and locations, journey across time and space in your search for victory in the ultimate war between good and evil, clash in PvP battles against other players in little Jimmy's bedroom closet!*

*Demon game-play content only allows for PvP in little kid's closests.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-09-2010, 02:14 PM
Instancing kills more or less any realistic chance of an engaging factional war. True faction vs faction warfare requires Open PvP with real strategic objectives, areas which will provide faction wide rewards and prestige for the victors. Instancing and queues are not open, they provide minor and ultimately insignificant rewards and the pride and prestige of victory doesn't exist. I certainly don't feel any pride when I and my team win an instanced battle, nor do I feel shame or any sense of loss when I am defeated... but I would if I had invested time and energy into capturing and defending a Starbase or a Fort on a planet in the Neutral zone.

But alas, 50 instances of that same planet with no persistance means we will NOT experience this. The only way I can see this is with server wide PvP events similar to the end of Open Beta. A few hours every weekend or weekday or whatever with static instances which are then monitored. Whoever wins the most instances gains the planet or whatever the objective is. The result of course being somekind of factionwide access to this planet during the reset timer, providing improved devices or whatever.

It's not a perfect solution and probably not the only one, but it would significantly improve the PvP prospects of this game and will offer up a PvP end game which essentially never ends, and what's better than an MMO that never ends?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-09-2010, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
This isnt a dig, this is an honest question. Based on your staff's understanding or concept of a true open, objective based, expansive area, PvP war dynamic and campaign. Based on experience in playing in or dveloping a true war caimpaign. Do you guys think you have or could have it in you based on current or avilable software, hardware, wet-ware(thats people for those not knowing) to pull it off...to even warrant trying?

If you feel its warranted and worth it, but not sure how to pull it off, would you be willing to discuss with us our desires for how to?

Who on the staff likes to do things that that require he/she pit themselves against others in activities that sometims requires the sheddin o fblood, the acquiring of scrapes and bruises, to look within themslves and find the motivation to endure pain and suffering for one more minute, for one more instant, just to go one more foot, one more inch...its not even for the victory...its just to hold the other soff just long eneough to hopefully give themselves and/or their team a shot at victory.

That mentallity and spirit needs to be captured in jar...if a campaign model is to be fleshed out, thats where the staff is going to need to go, crack open the lid and take big whiff of that for motivation! Can you smell what the war is cookin'!?!?!?!?

I doubt they could even if they were inclined.

Which they're not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-11-2010, 09:19 AM
Good post OP. I brought this up a ton in CB and OB because by all the marketing material they released they were selling us this game as a faction war in a war torn star trek universe which it isn't. They were very misleading about it to make sales but then didn't deliver.

I know jackalope mentioned a few times that this is what he wanted to see and that gave me hope. But I too would like to hear an honest answer as to if this is in the plans, and if I can expect it before my hair turns gray(good luck getting an honest answer from any MMO company, marketing controls those responses and they're job is to lie for money....i'm in marketing.)

A real working pvp system with faction war, territory control, and actual objectives with rewards is necessary if this game is to survive. Right now people are already hitting the no end game content wall. yeah they can throw out a couple missions which people will finish in 2 days but that is not a sustainable model for end-game. A true pvp system of war like the marketing falsly portrayed would solve the end-game content problem and give people a reason to keep playing for years.

look at CO. no plan for end-game equals tons of lost subs and a an epic fail.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-11-2010, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
You also have to look at Cryptic's track record on this.

I mean City of Heroes + City of Villains. Is that not a perfect setting for a true faction war? What would be more factional than superheroes vs supervillains?

When COV came out, however, the "faction war" was limited to three fairly simple and cheesy PvP maps and a "just for fun" arena.


Then Champions Online came out and didn't even bother doing that much. They put in some token PvP arena style matches but there was very little to it.



STO, in its present form, is actually the most aggressive PvP attempt I've seen Cryptic do. I often shake my head at Cryptic's designs because they create these great game engines with interesting mechanics but they always blow it when it comes to implementing the kind of gaming systems that could really make it shine.

Superheroes vs supervillians. The Federation vs the Klingons. You can't get a more clear cut case for an epic battleground than this, but Cryptic can't seem to grasp the opportunity they're missing. My guess is that STO will be another Cryptic cookie cutter game and they'll move on to their next project, which is probably going to be another tantalizing MMORPG in an interesting setting with sound mechanics implemented as another PvE cookie cutter that fades into relative obscurity within about 6 months. I bought STO with full realization that I would probably play it for 2 months and then quit. That's just the way you have to approach a Cryptic game. They're good, but they never have the game elements required for long term gameplay.
dude, this is an amazing post. God if only cryptic actually did listen to their customers like they claim. If they read this and took it to heart maybe they'd have enough time to change things around. It's probably too late but if they grew some balls and geared all of their production to producing the faction war that they marketted to us then maybe this would finally be their big game that didn't flop.
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