Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-10-2010, 03:43 AM
First, I want to quote everything I agree with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taleris_Cold
Perhaps it's elitist mentality or the gamers of the world have begun to equate thoroughly stomping someone else's face with "fun".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
They should just do integrated voice-comms.
...
What I think ruins pugs is the solo mentality.
...
The other thing hurting pugs is the current reward system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minionsoldier View Post
i personally solo pvp constantly .
...
win or lose i dont see any real problem .
Quote:
Originally Posted by UlfricDraka View Post
There's a happy balance between "5 clueless n00bs who don't cooperate at all" and "humourless idiots who think they really are a SEAL team". Actually, the few times I've run with a real top class PvP team in other games they've been quite relaxed (in a professional sort of way) and fun to be around. The really uptight ones are usually the wannabes.
I like having the -choice- to be able to join PVP as an individual or a team. STO offers me more freedom of choice (RE: grouping or soloing) than any other multiplayer game thus far, and to me that is its biggest selling point.

PVP is all about crushing your enemy, but in STO it requires teamwork, which to me is its second biggest selling point. The problem is that the game currently does not reward teamwork: flat rewards are given to the winners and losers, scores are given to DPS and hull repair.

Consequently, this creates a steeper learning curve for the individuals joining PVP. If anything, this is STO's greatest flaw: steep learning curve for newbies, lack of proper documentation.

I agree that integrated voice comms would benefit the game tremendously, but I just hope they do it with a high-quality (and open-source!) application like Mumble instead of the crappy Ventrilo or TeamSpeak.

Furthermore, to solve the massive skill difference between PUGs and premades, I think we can all agree that ranked bracketed arenas specifically for premades (i.e., those who join the queues as a team) would work. In other words, separate the queues for those joining as a team, and those joining as individuals.

At the end of the day, PVP is only as fun as each player makes it. Win or lose, I almost always have fun because of the challenging difficulty level of playing against human AI.

The only thing that wrecks the fun for me is communication with the enemy team: trash-talk, whining (aka 'QQing'), or bragging (aka 'epeen' measuring). This is STO's second biggest flaw to me, but not a huge one because I can just keep Zone chat minimised (or another chat tab open instead).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-10-2010, 03:54 AM
So i play Klingon and ...

I started T1 with PuGs, i did T2 with PuGs to 50% of T2, then i started to recognice players with the same name and when i ultimately talked in team channel and started to know some of them, and a big plus was that they were good players also. ( add player to friend list , its there for a reason ).

I like to play with good players, its like nice to see when everyone knows what they are doing.

So T2 went by, T3 started and i started to round up a premade and guess what, 0 losses ever.

Now T4 was total failure when i tried to pug a lil, like Feds facerolled our pug like everytime, and Feds were not even a premade (i asked everytime). So T4 PuG vs PuG is Fed win win. But when i got my STO friends teamed up again on T4, o boy were feds hurting 35 games and 1 lost game. On T4 PuG i lost 100% every game that wasnt nice.

So we learn to add people to Friend list, we learn to see what we need to survive in a 5vs5 DM map, and we learn that one guy in the bunch has to be the "lead" player, picking targets to some extent and doing tactical decisions.

This game is AWESOME in 5v5 Space DMs. Its fun, demanding and rewarding.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-10-2010, 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taleris_Cold
I apologize if you misunderstood my meaning and congratulate your father on his technological savvy. What I meant to convey was with the supposive redundancy of pug grouping why pug at all? Aside from the adrenaline rush of not knowing what you're getting at any time. A few of the mechanics within the game irk me, such as restricting character movement or ability to act. I don't mind knock downs/backs but if I get stuck in one spot and focus fired down in a few seconds flat thats just not fun period.

I'm all for people getting togather with their friends. Just had to make that statement easier for others to understand. I like the idea of joining a group before a queue can be filled, atleast gives you a chance to still be a pug but atleast know who you're working with.
To be honest not sure what you are wanting? No pugs? PvP ques to prevent people not in a full group from queing?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-10-2010, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
So i play Klingon and ...

I started T1 with PuGs, i did T2 with PuGs to 50% of T2, then i started to recognice players with the same name and when i ultimately talked in team channel and started to know some of them, and a big plus was that they were good players also. ( add player to friend list , its there for a reason ).

I like to play with good players, its like nice to see when everyone knows what they are doing.

So T2 went by, T3 started and i started to round up a premade and guess what, 0 losses ever.

Now T4 was total failure when i tried to pug a lil, like Feds facerolled our pug like everytime, and Feds were not even a premade (i asked everytime). So T4 PuG vs PuG is Fed win win. But when i got my STO friends teamed up again on T4, o boy were feds hurting 35 games and 1 lost game. On T4 PuG i lost 100% every game that wasnt nice.

So we learn to add people to Friend list, we learn to see what we need to survive in a 5vs5 DM map, and we learn that one guy in the bunch has to be the "lead" player, picking targets to some extent and doing tactical decisions.

This game is AWESOME in 5v5 Space DMs. Its fun, demanding and rewarding.
/sarcasm

I thought the Klingon ships/cloak/DPS etc were so overpowered so the only way for Feds to beat a PUG team was to roll with an experienced premade group (and even in that case victory wasnt guaranteed)

/sarcasm off
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-10-2010, 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
To be honest not sure what you are wanting? No pugs? PvP ques to prevent people not in a full group from queing?
Seperate ques for groups and solo players?

That way a premade would only engage another premade group (and the better challenge).. win/win
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-10-2010, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
/sarcasm

I thought the Klingon ships/cloak/DPS etc were so overpowered so the only way for Feds to beat a PUG team was to roll with an experienced premade group (and even in that case victory wasnt guaranteed)

/sarcasm off
T1 Feds hardly ever win without a premade.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-10-2010, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taleris_Cold
What I meant to convey was with the supposive redundancy of pug grouping why pug at all?
This is an MMO. It's meant to be socially interactive. Even though I'm in a guild, we don't operate in a bubble. We look to meet new people. Not neccessarily to bring them into the fold, but get an idea if there are any others out there that share our philosophy on what this game is about and how we like to play it.

The voice comms are as much for keeping the banter going with my mates that I now consider my friends as it is used for co-ordinating in a PvP instance.

I would argue that if you don't PUG, you miss out on meeting other people who could eventually become regular teammates. There is no death penalty in this game so it makes even more sense to get out there and give it a shot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-10-2010, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
T1 Feds hardly ever win without a premade.
True, it certainly looks that way, but they could though, the Miranda are pretty well suited for combat against the BOPs.. Just mimic the BOP loadout hvy cannon/torp/turret, and make liberal use of tractorbeam and 1/4 impulse evasive ... Its not like a LT6 Miranda doesnt have enough money to get the weapons, and it normally have a pretty goddarn good shield.

I know, Ive done some T1 Fed PvP when I was bored on a throwaway toon (create toon, grind until you have the shield and enough cash to buy cannon/turret, PvP.. Once the toon hits LtCmdr delete and make new toon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-10-2010, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
First, I want to quote everything I agree with:




I like having the -choice- to be able to join PVP as an individual or a team. STO offers me more freedom of choice (RE: grouping or soloing) than any other multiplayer game thus far, and to me that is its biggest selling point.

PVP is all about crushing your enemy, but in STO it requires teamwork, which to me is its second biggest selling point. The problem is that the game currently does not reward teamwork: flat rewards are given to the winners and losers, scores are given to DPS and hull repair.

Consequently, this creates a steeper learning curve for the individuals joining PVP. If anything, this is STO's greatest flaw: steep learning curve for newbies, lack of proper documentation.

I agree that integrated voice comms would benefit the game tremendously, but I just hope they do it with a high-quality (and open-source!) application like Mumble instead of the crappy Ventrilo or TeamSpeak.

Furthermore, to solve the massive skill difference between PUGs and premades, I think we can all agree that ranked bracketed arenas specifically for premades (i.e., those who join the queues as a team) would work. In other words, separate the queues for those joining as a team, and those joining as individuals.

At the end of the day, PVP is only as fun as each player makes it. Win or lose, I almost always have fun because of the challenging difficulty level of playing against human AI.

The only thing that wrecks the fun for me is communication with the enemy team: trash-talk, whining (aka 'QQing'), or bragging (aka 'epeen' measuring). This is STO's second biggest flaw to me, but not a huge one because I can just keep Zone chat minimised (or another chat tab open instead).
I would pointout that the rewards are not flat. The ammount of damage you do as well as hull repair effect your rewards. As an example someone with the most damage and hullrepair on your team could receive 28 medals while the person with the lowest total could only get 18 medals. I do not know if the kills deaths have any effect on the rewards.
I can udnerstand the concept of seperating pugs and premades. This might work on the FED side but remember all we have on Klingons is pvp. Thus a person who is not already in a guild would have no way of meeting other players in a guild with the same ease of FEDS who also have pve.
Additonally, puggs are not the problem. I have been insoem pugg groups of have been in a premade where we had a couple of puggs on our side. We stil worked well togeather and did not even need to communicate to the puggs we were able to know what the otehr person was doing and work togeather.

Zone chatt is an issue. I can see that cryptic was thinkign just one faction when they developed zone chatt and did nto change the system for two fractions. I wil point out that in many a battle we have had nice discusssion witht he oterh side over ship and skil set ups alogn with informing them if there is an issue with say a bugged player. Also, i have been in battles were 1 palyer was vastly outnumbered and we arranged for 1v1 fights
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-10-2010, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
I would pointout that the rewards are not flat. The ammount of damage you do as well as hull repair effect your rewards. As an example someone with the most damage and hullrepair on your team could receive 28 medals while the person with the lowest total could only get 18 medals. I do not know if the kills deaths have any effect on the rewards.
You are correct, apologies for my inaccuracy there. But my point is, it does not take into effect other participation, such as shield healing, stuns, and the like.
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