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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-11-2010, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
This sounds like another facet of a debate I think of as "Roleplaying" vs "Making Crap Up".

Roleplaying means you're living in a world created by someone else and are roleplaying as a character within that universe. This means that if you are a Klingon in Star Trek, you are a warrior with a racial superiority complex. You can roleplay it however you like, so long as you are basically Klingon.

Making crap up is when you go into a well established world and do something entirely outside the story of that world. You're no longer roleplaying in the traditional sense and are simply making crap up. It's like a D&D player simply telling the GM that he has a laser gun. He has stopped roleplaying and started making crap up. Similarly, being an alien in the KDF is basically making crap up. Playing a Klingon with the name "Daisy" who only talks of love, peace and smoking pot would also be making crap up.

"Telling your own story" can be entirely contrary to and destructive of real rolelaying.
While I tend to agree with you, I'd rather have the kind of freedom we do now than having to live by someone else's draconian definition of what it is to be Klingon (for me Worf would not be Klingon where for someone else he might be the epitome).

What has started to annoy me the most though is the fact that I can't even get my own f'ing crew on my bridge. Seriously is there something so special about the code to do this that it must remain a Fed only thing?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
Playing a Klingon with the name "Daisy" who only talks of love, peace and smoking pot would also be making crap up.
It may be making crap up, but I'd see it as a definite win

I suppose it's somewhat comparable to Jedi hanging out at Mos Eisley Spaceport with their robes on in SWG, only the idea of some non-Klingon earning some grudging respect from the Klingons for his or her martial prowess makes a little more sense. Not much more, but a little.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-11-2010, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genosaurer View Post
Does this seem like an issue to anyone else?
Its depressing...my bridge is like a refugee camp.

I know its the Gorn who keeps stealing the eggs from the ship's Mess!. He likes to hide them about the ship...but he cant remember where he hid them all...so random parts of the ship stink! Dadgum egg eating Gorn!.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Klingons have increased threat generation, how very useful. As a pvp faction it'll have more people wanting to min-max a bit and thus rolling alien, imo the best preset race for klings is Orion because they only have 1 forced trait.

Even if building an entirely ground char alien is better I think.

Also no to any ideas to nerf aliens at all, yes to making presets more appealing though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-11-2010, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockeryangel
Also no to any ideas to nerf aliens at all, yes to making presets more appealing though.
Agreed; I think if they were going to make alien worse, the time to do it was before release. As it stands now, they'd be better off doing something to buff the premade race traits instead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-11-2010, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oberlerchner123 View Post
Couldnt they make a Klingon looking Alien? (just wondering i never played Klingon)
PVPers want pretty characters too. Personally, I made a funny looking short and fat dude.

The reality is that PVPers are min/maxers or they are bad PVPers. Min/maxers will make an alien, because its the only way to optimize traits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-11-2010, 05:21 PM
I donīt like Ground as mauch as Space so i have alien with 4 space traits. I agree with the min/maxing argument. I like to have the freedom to chose my traits.

But my character atleast looks similar to a klingon. Pretty much the same except pointy ears ^-^
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-11-2010, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealmikeg View Post
PVPers want pretty characters too. Personally, I made a funny looking short and fat dude.

The reality is that PVPers are min/maxers or they are bad PVPers. Min/maxers will make an alien, because its the only way to optimize traits.
Not all of us are pure min/maxers...I went partial RPing and then after that I just build on my ship's strengths.

But I have to admit I was surprised to see some peple have seperate characters for ground and space...but then again, thats because it removes the immersion...and thats key for me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
Even Worf apparently went back to the KDF though. Any who stuck with the Feds would officially be traitors to their people at this point.

But I'm not talking about the player-characters, I mean the random NPCs that spawn, for example in the Ice Mining battle. There's a relatively large number of Klingon-looking NPCs that show up there on the Federation side. IMO, Klingon NPCs working for the Federation should be extremely rare.
Bah, Klingons fight among each other all the time. It makes little difference to the Klingon mindset if their opponent is another Klingon. If anything, humans in ST have a harder time will killing "their own kind" thank Klingons do.

You are more of a traitor to the Klingon people if you abandon your honor, than if you hold to your honor and stay with Starfleet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-11-2010, 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
This sounds like another facet of a debate I think of as "Roleplaying" vs "Making Crap Up".

Roleplaying means you're living in a world created by someone else and are roleplaying as a character within that universe. This means that if you are a Klingon in Star Trek, you are a warrior with a racial superiority complex. You can roleplay it however you like, so long as you are basically Klingon.

Making crap up is when you go into a well established world and do something entirely outside the story of that world. You're no longer roleplaying in the traditional sense and are simply making crap up. It's like a D&D player simply telling the GM that he has a laser gun. He has stopped roleplaying and started making crap up. Similarly, being an alien in the KDF is basically making crap up. Playing a Klingon with the name "Daisy" who only talks of love, peace and smoking pot would also be making crap up.

"Telling your own story" can be entirely contrary to and destructive of real rolelaying.
Well established becomes an interesting point, if you look at all the licensed materials about Klingons. FASA had a Star Trek table top game predating ST:TNG and many people knew of another game from point in time called Star Fleet Battles.

Both made it clear that Klingons used servator races extensively. This was true, even to the majority of their forces. You can think of it as Klingons were officers and the servant races were the enlisted majority.

In fact, the servant races were the reason for the D-7 and later K'Tinga designs. Much like Federation saucer separation, the forward boom could be separated so a crew could live to fight another day, if the battle was over and the ship simply too injured, rather than die from something bland like radiation.

The non klingons would be left behind with the main warp reactors. Such was their fate in the 23rd century.

Another facet to this older idea was KDF worked a bit like the American National Guard. Why aren't we invading Sol system at will as Klingon players? That's because we're KDF and not the Klingon Imperial Navy.

Our fuction is protecting the homeland(s), not being the tip of the spear. It's a matter of discipline and honor that we do not neglect that sacred duty.

This less desired warrior station makes it possible for other races to captain ships (nobles and Imperial decendants would claim the flasher KIN spots). Again, in this old idea, we would be KDF, not KIN.

The prolonged wars may have whittled the forward KIN force to nothing. Thus, there is more oppurtunity than in times past.

FASA had some interesting ideas why Klingons looked the way they did in TOS as well. Klingons were the genetic experts of the galaxy and actually fused races to make it easier to spy on them. There were Klingon / Human fusions and Klingon / Romulan fusions. Perhaps your Fed toon, that you unlocked Klingon with, is something like this.

I tend to FASA's ideas on TOS Klingons a lot better as an explaination than things brought up in DS9 and Enterprise. The mix of races seems to be a good thing to me. Klingons still need numbers to fight the unending wars. That means conscription of able bodies to make up gaps.

Klingons are a long lived race after all. They don't reproduce their numbers as fast as humans seem to. As ST always quietly proves, Earthers are the rabbits of the universe...
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