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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I have read in material from cryptic that science ships have the innate ability to detect cloaked ships. I played a science ship through CB, OB, and now in release and have yet to see any indication of this whatsoever. Never once has it happened to me. Further more, i have spoke with several science pilots in game chat and none of them have ever seen it happen either.

Does anyone know anything about this?


My other question is baring the science ships supposed ability to see cloaked ships are there any other BO abilities that do this other than the charged partcile burst. That ability has such a small range it's essentially useless. I tried it for a long time in pvp and it only works if you're right next to a BoP the moment it cloaks. but it's useless the other 30 minutes of the pvp match in which you're just flying around with no idea where they are and no way to get them to drop cloak other than wandering off to be ganked which accomplishes nothing.

In CB the feds won almost every pvp match and it was very unbalanced. now every single klink just sits cloaked the entire battle unless a lone fed ship wanders away. so every pvp match is ending with 2 kills for klingons and 0 for feds as the feds don't want to stray from each other because that's suicide and the klinks won't engage unless there is 0% chance of them dying. (which i don't blame them for because it's a sure way to win.)

I'm just so tired of spending every PvP match sitting and doing nothing while the entire other side remains cloaked.

BTW, i am definitely not advocating removing cloak or *****ing about cloak. it would be silly to not allow klinks to battle cloak.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-11-2010, 09:20 AM
I am one of very few Science captains I see around me.

I play as a part of a small fleet of RL friends. My usual group is me - science, an Escort and a Constitution (Cruiser). Worth noting that we are on the upper end of Tier 2...PvPing for the majority of gear (progression is entirely too quick to do Everything available...so the only quests we do are the main Story quests....which are awesome and, coincidently, yeld some awesome loot. WIN!)

Now...as Science, we already have higher Stealth detection. Within ~5km, I can see their stealthed "shadows" (while my group mates cannot)..once I spot one of those, I pop a Sensor scan. Humorous moments occur when I "bait" (as in fly off about 8km on my own while my buddies are watching my back) and see a shadow, yell "I've got one", pop Sensor scan and ... suddenly have to correct myself to "I've got all of them!". (Don't worry about my well-being, though. I've got it covered.)

Now...when the Klingons feel like they are in trouble and just stay cloaked...They are still close. They still circle and keep the tabs on bunched up feds - always.

What I do is fly off about 5km, direct power to engines for speed, pop Sensor scan for my own Stealth detection and fly around the ~5km radius circle around my group. Klingons are always within striking distance. I am yet to waste a Sensor Scan without finding at least one "scout". Now usually once I attack it, the rest start popping out...but at that point the fight is on our (Fed) terms.

P.S. Also worth noting that I've played the Science to mid-T3 in OB. I did not have the honour of Closed Beta, but, having employed this same playstyle in OB and now that the game is out I have no complains about the stealth detection:

If Klingons do not want to be found, they will not be - as it should be. Stealth is there for a reason...however, if they are close enough to threaten you then they are vulnerable to Sensor Scan from my experience.

I just try to .... I don't know...get in the mind set? Think of where I'd hang around if I was a stealthed Klingon looking at ~4+ bunched up Feds...and act on that.

Hasn't failed me yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-11-2010, 09:25 AM
You need to run with a high Auxiliary power setting, and preferably stack some +Sensor consoles and Captain skills. I can sometimes spot cloaked ships a few kilometers away without using Sensor Scan, but it's not all that common. If I used more sensor equipment I might could get a better range, but with just skills and 105 Aux power (90 base, plus bonus') I can spot 'em at 3km or so.

With a Sensor Scan (Science Captain ability) and high Aux power, I can sometimes spot them out at 6-7km for that brief window. The downside of this is that my scan will be on cooldown and can't be used for the rather hefty damage resistance debuff; Klingon Science Captains (not quite an onxymoron ) don't have this same problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-11-2010, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheem View Post
You need to run with a high Auxiliary power setting, and preferably stack some +Sensor consoles and Captain skills. I can sometimes spot cloaked ships a few kilometers away without using Sensor Scan, but it's not all that common. If I used more sensor equipment I might could get a better range, but with just skills and 105 Aux power (90 base, plus bonus') I can spot 'em at 3km or so.

With a Sensor Scan (Science Captain ability) and high Aux power, I can sometimes spot them out at 6-7km for that brief window. The downside of this is that my scan will be on cooldown and can't be used for the rather hefty damage resistance debuff; Klingon Science Captains (not quite an onxymoron ) don't have this same problem.
I kept wondering what this "sensor scan" is, thanks for clearing that up. As far as I knew it was just a damage buff. I guess since I'm an engineer captian I don't have access to that. I really wish cryptic would take the time to give out correct information instead of saying "science SHIPS have the ability to detect cloaked ships" they should have said "science CAPTAINS have the ability to detect cloaked ships." now I guess i'm pretty much SOL unless I want to restart even though I'm already at T3.

I fly with my aux all the way up and one of my science slots has a +sensor module. When you see these shadows can you target them or does it just give you an idea of where they are?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-11-2010, 09:44 AM
With stacked sensor consoles and a blue sensor array deflector I've spotted klingons out about 9.5-10km with sensor scan, they were low aux likely and I was running maximum, that setup was a bit much just to spot klingons tho, did make sensor scan debuff reaally strong however.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-11-2010, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palach
I am one of very few Science captains I see around me.

I play as a part of a small fleet of RL friends. My usual group is me - science, an Escort and a Constitution (Cruiser). Worth noting that we are on the upper end of Tier 2...PvPing for the majority of gear (progression is entirely too quick to do Everything available...so the only quests we do are the main Story quests....which are awesome and, coincidently, yeld some awesome loot. WIN!)

Now...as Science, we already have higher Stealth detection. Within ~5km, I can see their stealthed "shadows" (while my group mates cannot)..once I spot one of those, I pop a Sensor scan. Humorous moments occur when I "bait" (as in fly off about 8km on my own while my buddies are watching my back) and see a shadow, yell "I've got one", pop Sensor scan and ... suddenly have to correct myself to "I've got all of them!". (Don't worry about my well-being, though. I've got it covered.)

Now...when the Klingons feel like they are in trouble and just stay cloaked...They are still close. They still circle and keep the tabs on bunched up feds - always.

What I do is fly off about 5km, direct power to engines for speed, pop Sensor scan for my own Stealth detection and fly around the ~5km radius circle around my group. Klingons are always within striking distance. I am yet to waste a Sensor Scan without finding at least one "scout". Now usually once I attack it, the rest start popping out...but at that point the fight is on our (Fed) terms.

P.S. Also worth noting that I've played the Science to mid-T3 in OB. I did not have the honour of Closed Beta, but, having employed this same playstyle in OB and now that the game is out I have no complains about the stealth detection:

If Klingons do not want to be found, they will not be - as it should be. Stealth is there for a reason...however, if they are close enough to threaten you then they are vulnerable to Sensor Scan from my experience.

I just try to .... I don't know...get in the mind set? Think of where I'd hang around if I was a stealthed Klingon looking at ~4+ bunched up Feds...and act on that.

Hasn't failed me yet.
But as you stated you have to get in the mind set and like you many Klingons are running the same way thinking like a science officer. knowing there is sensor scan out there they will stay away from those close in ranges until just before striking. I know I do it myself and have on several occasions watched the science ship waste a sensor scan looking for me or my fleet mates.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-11-2010, 10:10 AM
so basically if you aren't a science captian but fly a science ship your s**t out of luck. science ships themselves don't get sensor scan just the science captians.


awesome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-11-2010, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palach
I am one of very few Science captains I see around me.

I play as a part of a small fleet of RL friends. My usual group is me - science, an Escort and a Constitution (Cruiser). Worth noting that we are on the upper end of Tier 2...PvPing for the majority of gear (progression is entirely too quick to do Everything available...so the only quests we do are the main Story quests....which are awesome and, coincidently, yeld some awesome loot. WIN!)

Now...as Science, we already have higher Stealth detection. Within ~5km, I can see their stealthed "shadows" (while my group mates cannot)..once I spot one of those, I pop a Sensor scan. Humorous moments occur when I "bait" (as in fly off about 8km on my own while my buddies are watching my back) and see a shadow, yell "I've got one", pop Sensor scan and ... suddenly have to correct myself to "I've got all of them!". (Don't worry about my well-being, though. I've got it covered.)

Now...when the Klingons feel like they are in trouble and just stay cloaked...They are still close. They still circle and keep the tabs on bunched up feds - always.

What I do is fly off about 5km, direct power to engines for speed, pop Sensor scan for my own Stealth detection and fly around the ~5km radius circle around my group. Klingons are always within striking distance. I am yet to waste a Sensor Scan without finding at least one "scout". Now usually once I attack it, the rest start popping out...but at that point the fight is on our (Fed) terms.

P.S. Also worth noting that I've played the Science to mid-T3 in OB. I did not have the honour of Closed Beta, but, having employed this same playstyle in OB and now that the game is out I have no complains about the stealth detection:

If Klingons do not want to be found, they will not be - as it should be. Stealth is there for a reason...however, if they are close enough to threaten you then they are vulnerable to Sensor Scan from my experience.

I just try to .... I don't know...get in the mind set? Think of where I'd hang around if I was a stealthed Klingon looking at ~4+ bunched up Feds...and act on that.

Hasn't failed me yet.
I agree with all of that also look UP. I'm not really sure why but for some reason most players like to attack while heading down at their target (I do too. I'm trying to break the habit and learn to attack from the bottom)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-11-2010, 10:31 AM
There are at least three categories of stealth removal. Passive detection, sensor scan and active removal.

Passive detection is the periodic check the game does which combines the players gross perception and compares it to the target stealth rating + distance and target player stats :
(innate character traits + players sensor captain skills + aux settings + buffs - distance) <> (cloaker's base cloak power + cloaker's innate traits + cloakers captain skills + cloaker's aux settings)

We don't know what all the numbers are yet, since they get fudged around, but without captain skils and innate skills, just pumping aux won't make you detect a cloaked ship.

Until now, most fed captains have been adopting one-trick-pony builds and been pumping points into survivability or dps, and few people have really investigated what it takes to reveal cloak - which is good for the KDF players, but bad for the constant stupidity here on the forums as this lack of effort invariably translates into uninformed opinions.

Sensor scan is both a passive detection buff and active removal for science captains.

Active removal is any power that will remove cloak from a cloaked ship. There are quite a few powers that will, and you are encouraged to read power descriptions and discover these for yourself.

Eventually all of these things will be published on websites, and defeating cloak will be fairly trivial, but that day hasn't come yet, so either expend the effort to figure out how to do it or continue to suffer by that lack of effort - at least until the spoiler websites come out to play the game for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
There are at least three categories of stealth removal. Passive detection, sensor scan and active removal.

Passive detection is the periodic check the game does which combines the players gross perception and compares it to the target stealth rating + distance and target player stats :
(innate character traits + players sensor captain skills + aux settings + buffs - distance) <> (cloaker's base cloak power + cloaker's innate traits + cloakers captain skills + cloaker's aux settings)

We don't know what all the numbers are yet, since they get fudged around, but without captain skils and innate skills, just pumping aux won't make you detect a cloaked ship.

Until now, most fed captains have been adopting one-trick-pony builds and been pumping points into survivability or dps, and few people have really investigated what it takes to reveal cloak - which is good for the KDF players, but bad for the constant stupidity here on the forums as this lack of effort invariably translates into uninformed opinions.

Sensor scan is both a passive detection buff and active removal for science captains.

Active removal is any power that will remove cloak from a cloaked ship. There are quite a few powers that will, and you are encouraged to read power descriptions and discover these for yourself.

Eventually all of these things will be published on websites, and defeating cloak will be fairly trivial, but that day hasn't come yet, so either expend the effort to figure out how to do it or continue to suffer by that lack of effort - at least until the spoiler websites come out to play the game for you.
awesome post. thank you fro the detailed info, this is much appreciated.

All through CB and OB i noticed the big problem with PvP was the cloak. feds would sit in a ball because it was suicide not to, and klings would sit cloaked the whole match because why not go for an assured victory over a maybe victory. Instead of complaining like a lot of players I figured...."well cryptic said that science ships can detect cloak so why not do something about it and focus on uncloaking rather than just complaining."

what would innate skill be? I split my captian skill points about 1/3rd sensors and 2/3rd deflectors. which is also how i gear my ship, deflectors first and sensors second with almost nothing in dps because I prefer the pure support role.
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