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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Recently I just managed to get enough PvP done to get my Borg Klingon up to Commander 1. I am hearing a lot about how "overpowered" the Klingons are in PvP. But seriously, I am just not seeing it.

In ground PvP, everything seems to be fine. It does look like the Feds get access to better kits than the Klingons do, but honestly it doesn't look like it makes that much of a difference. I haven't hard a hard time from my turrets not have shields while theirs do. (I'm an engineering Borg if that isn't obvious from the last statement.)

Space is a different game entirely, though. I have learned very quickly to avoid house battles in space. Everybody cloaks, and the first team to get bored loses. But I have been more or less pretty happy in capture territory battles (aka, Salvage Operation). That is, except for the fact that Klingons can't win. It appears that if it wasn't for the fact that the game is set to let everyone "win" at the end of the engagement, I would still be stuck at LC 5, strictly from ground combat.

With the Arena maps, Cracked Planet and Solar Wind, if the federation can get in a ball, you get the Klingons either perpetually cloaked and orbiting at a very safe distance, and the first ones to get bored loses. Or sometimes the Klingons can bum-rush a mostly escort ball of Feds and actually have somewhat of a chance at winning. Actually, it doesn't seem too unbalanced, but the odd are still on the Federation side as far as I can tell. Their ships are a lot sturdier.

What I love about the Territory maps is that it gives everyone a reason to spread out. At least in theory, if the Feds ball at one point, they can still lose to Klingons holding the other four points. But in practice, I just don't see this happening. In fact, I often see an early Klingon advantage when the battle group spreads out. However, most of the time at around the halfway or quarter way point, the Klingons start losing hard with nothing able to help. Sometimes, a Fed player or two gets themselves complete stuck inside the station at the center of the map, which makes them nearly untouchable, and allows them to hold the center point indefinitely. But the big pattern I see is that if the Feds start to ball in the center, they can not only hold that point, but can easily access the other points. So you get a line of 1 or 2 feds in the center, 3 halfway between the center and one point, and the rest of them in a ball on the opposite side. The game is then over. Very consistently I find myself always fighting 3 against 1 with no support from my allies, who are uselessly circling various points under cloak to avoid the fedball if they aren't getting eaten by the fedball, and a 200/1200 Klingon advantage ticks down inevitably to a 200/0 win for the Feds. A lot of these most recent matches have had me on the top of both the damage rank and the death rank. So it appears my allies are just giving up rather than trying anything to salvage the situation.

In all honesty, if I am doing something wrong, I haven't a clue what it is. Over time I've tried out many different weapon and bridge officer configurations, and have come up with a configuration that will beat a typical Fed escort or even cruiser 1 on 1 almost every time. I can even hold my own with 2 Feds on me until reinforcements arrive. But 3 on one just doesn't seem to be possible.

My final loadout had a single cannon and two photon torpedoes in the front, and a turret in the rear. My main bridge officer active was a Tactics officer with High Yield Torpedo I and Cannon Rapid Fire I. The other two officers were science with Polarize Hull I, and Science Team I. In battle, I can rapidly close the distance and get behind an escort and shred the shields while circling it to keep out of his forward arc. At the same time, the two torpedoes finish off an exposed hull extremely fast. If an opponent runs, I'll usually have 3 torpedoes flying before they get out of range, and they usually don't have the emergency power to engines to outrun those like many Klingons do. The Polarize Hull and Science Team give me the resistance to match a cruiser, while still usually outgunning one. In fact, those two were chosen specifically to counter tractor beams and targeting sensor jammers so they can't rely on their usual control powers to win the fight.

Also, I don't just play as a Klingon. My Federation character is at LC 10, is also an engineering Borg, and captains a science ship. That ship has two torpedoes and two turrets. I run her with a Tactics team officer, an Emergency to Shields engineer, an a combination of science officers with Polarize Hull, Jam Targeting Sensors, and Tractor Beam II. This ship also rather consistently wins 1 on 1 and even 2 on 1. And when I enter into territory battles, I watch the Federation win as usual as often.

So what exactly is going on here? Have the Tier 2 Klingons really at that much of a disadvantage? Have they been conditioned to lose? Or is this some sort of weird right-of-passage test to weed out the cowards before they get to the Tier 3 bracket? Is it going to get better in T3 when the red side actually gets a cruiser to play with? I might soon be finding out the hard way, as I just don't want to give up just yet. Even so, any advice or comments would be appreciated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-11-2010, 03:03 AM
Similarly, ive been under the impression that T2 is unbalanced in space at least. As you said on the ground it seems to be a fair match.

To me it seemed that the Klingons could do alot better with a cruiser there, which Cryptic have promised to add i a future patch. Specifically these could be used to break a Federation phaser ball, by decloaking first and absorbing as much of the fire as possiblee while the Raptors and BOPs set to work on blowing stuff up.

However, towards the end of T2 me and a few other players had grouped up for matches on cracked planetoid and were able to break the fed ball up with some coordinated focus fire. It didnt always give us the win but we brought our score up to 12+ in most games. Again, with a cruiser decloaking first in these situations, the Escorts have a much longer time to crack open the Fed ships.

I tend to avoid the salvage operation games, no one really seems to understand that you win by capping the points not by blowing up the enemy.

I don't think adding a cruiser will solve all of the apparent problems in T2 but IMO will go along way to re-balancing, or at least giving Klingon players a new way to attack the Fed Phaser Ball
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-11-2010, 03:12 AM
T1 was always the klingons far in front of the feds.

T2 has the feds beating hard on the klingons in far superior ships.

T3 has a much more even battle despite a small edge for the feds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-11-2010, 03:20 AM
There are some balancing issues that need to be addressed, but a great PvP team that uses Vent, has a Premade group, uses BOFs wisely, and coordinates well will win no matter which side it plays. The exception being when it faces another great PvP team. Then, all things being equal, each team should win half the time. All things are not equal, and these players (and in house PvP testers) will point out where balance is needed.

An excellent Premade that plays as above will almost always win (90%) of the time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-11-2010, 03:27 AM
Well I am sure some uber Klingon's can offer some advice, but as far as I can tell (I'm in T4) the Klingon's lose 95% of the time in Salvage maps no matter what. The only time they win is when they have superior numbers, or they do the fed tactic and ball up, and don't really cloak. Then they can ball vs ball them and out dps them sometimes, but in general sci ships out utility us, cruisers out tank us, and escorts with support can out dps us due to having uber healing from the support ships. Klinks just don't spec support it seems, so without a lot of Klink players specing and playing support we really don't have a chance. This is not really our fault since the faction is designed around damage, the xp is designed around damage, and most players wanting to be elite PvP "skillz guys" think damage is the most important stat. This is partly the fault of the game, and partly the egocentric nature of a lot of PvP players that play Klingon.

Overall I am disappointed with PvP in this game, especially in T4. For someone who just Pugs right now it seems like a game of rock, paper, scissors. With the Klinks only allowed scissors, while the Feds get their choices. A BoP is no sci ship even with its"generic BO slots". It simply is too squishy, and BC is virtually useless if the Feds have any number of sci ships that are decently speced. They detect me at 10k most of the time, even with max aux, making "escaping" into cloak almost pointless I just escape with engines and EM, battle cloak is almost useless.

The fact that there are even "Klingon's are OP" threads here is laughable. Any fed group that knows what they are doing can own most of the time. I don't even understand how they lose to be honest.

Personally the whole "healing" thing is starting to wear on me, as is the over reliance of CC to basically win you any battle ( I mean everyone has to take the VM counter just to have a chance, and that is just silly). It is certainly not in keeping with the IP, and it makes me feel like I am more and more playing a holy trinity game. I did not feel this way in the lower tiers, but the higher I go the more it seems to be the feel of it. I was hoping for more Star Trek, more actual situational/environmental strategy then simply a BO equipment game of countering one ability with another.

So in answer to your question: This Klingon is confused.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-11-2010, 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Lloyd
There are some balancing issues that need to be addressed, but a great PvP team that uses Vent, has a Premade group, uses BOFs wisely, and coordinates well will win no matter which side it plays. The exception being when it faces another great PvP team. Then, all things being equal, each team should win half the time. All things are not equal, and these players (and in house PvP testers) will point out where balance is needed.

An excellent Premade that plays as above will almost always win (90%) of the time.
Although I really cant say with any authority how premade vrs premade go since I am just a Pug guy, I am inclined to think that a good PvP Fed Fleet (as good as a Klingon one) would destroy a Klingon group of equal strength. They simply have more abilities and their ships make far better support ships then Klingon ones do, and it seems to me that support is what wins the day in big engagements. It seems likely to me that most of the best PvP groups play Klingon right now, but given our lack of content that might change. T4, at least to me, seems to heavily favor the Defense mechanic of this game, and that clearly goes to the Feds. But heck, this is just how I see it... Maybe I get into the right fleet and its easy mode..who knows?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-11-2010, 05:17 AM
We had one particular T2 Cracked Planet with 5 of us in Vent communicating, against 5 Feds what were well organized. Our first strike was all 5 of us on one Fed, I forget which class, even with 5 of us against one ship, we couldn't take it out, they were healing our target faster than 5 of us could take it out. Meanwhile the other four picked us off one by one till we were defeated or retreated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-11-2010, 08:16 AM
T2 Space battle so far for me have been a very painfull experience. Out of 10 matches we won 1, and it was bacuase the fed were outnumbered.

On the ground its a different issue, with a good group , like the one we had the other night , we won 5 in a row losing the last one becuase 2 out of 5 had to go.

I find ground PVP a bit more balanced than the space, Cant wait to start T3, to see how it goes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-11-2010, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker2009 View Post
We had one particular T2 Cracked Planet with 5 of us in Vent communicating, against 5 Feds what were well organized. Our first strike was all 5 of us on one Fed, I forget which class, even with 5 of us against one ship, we couldn't take it out, they were healing our target faster than 5 of us could take it out. Meanwhile the other four picked us off one by one till we were defeated or retreated.
Precisely, you made a mistake of staying on target instead of switching targets. Remember, two hull heals on the same target put that player at over 50% damage resist. That means your entire team was doing half their damage, or less if that player had more then two heals. The whole idea of Vent is coordination and calling out focus fire. Just like with Reverse Shield Polarity if you see a player go from 30% health all the way to 100% then you know he is getting massive resist, switch for 20 to 30 seconds to another target. Make the other team spread their heals around, make em panic. Look up the score tab quickly, see who is doing the most healing, most likely their abilities are on the cooldown, focus fire that player. Vent comms is a tool, you need to use it correctly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-11-2010, 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GnawLF
Precisely, you made a mistake of staying on target instead of switching targets. Remember, two hull heals on the same target put that player at over 50% damage resist.
Oh it can be far worse then that, going off what I can do (cmdr 8 Klingon, in K't'inga, spec'd mostly for healing and support):

Science Team II + Extend shields I = 48% shield damage reduction, possibly rising to over 100% if they have rotate shield freq and emergency power to shields
Hazard Emitters I + Engineering Team III = 63% resist

and that's if we choose to ignore any inherent resist (which can easily be over 10%) and the actual heals going in (HE being a HoT). This can be done with just a single T3 ship (my K't'inga infact) imagine what you can do with higher level BOff skills...
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