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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-16-2010, 11:25 AM
what you've proposed here is called a bandaid fix. You are addressing the symptoms and not the cause. Fix the queue system to drop you from queues when you enter a pvp instance and create waiting rooms before matches. Problem solved and would take less time than what you've suggested here

Last but not least they need a 'instant action' queue that will drop you in the first available instance
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-16-2010, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digglez
what you've proposed here is called a bandaid fix. You are addressing the symptoms and not the cause. Fix the queue system to drop you from queues when you enter a pvp instance and create waiting rooms before matches. Problem solved and would take less time than what you've suggested here

Last but not least they need a 'instant action' queue that will drop you in the first available instance
The queue already does that. Whichever opens up first, a new instance or one where a player bailed is what you'll get.

Here are my suggestions: (with some dupes, I'm sure)

Do a countdown to start. Keep each side near their starting position for a set period of time, then let them go. Klingons already do it, Feds do it when the Klinks let them, just make it part of the default to reduce aggravation.

As soon as you join a queue, automatically drop the player from all other queues. This should have been a no-brainer and as was said, this is the source of a lot of the problem.

Set up some kind of "alternate" joining system. If a slot opens up in an instance (either in a new one or existing), pop up a box to the person directly in line behind them giving them a checkbox to click to allow them to join as an alternate. This means that if the queue time expires the alternate would be automatically pulled in. Means if the first person doesn't join the instance is still full after the minute us up anyways.

Reduce the countdown to 30 seconds. PvP is about the other players, when you join the queue you should be ready to jump in, you shouldn't be trying to finish a patrol or something. 30 seconds is more than enough time to see the prompt, finish your skill points or inventory or whatever and join. Any longer than that just draws it out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-16-2010, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otheym81 View Post
Heh.. too bad the 5v1 is only a problem for feds. Klings just cloak up and refuse to fight till reinforcements arrive.

It's a double standard I'm not happy about. I have no problem waiting for Kling reinforcements to make it a good fight. Both sides are wasting their time. I want a good game. But after so long, I'll leave as a fed, or uncloak and suicide on the klings.

One problem is that you don't leave your other queues when you join a match. They stay on, and most expire when you're in a match. Which leaves the other queue SoL cause they lost a guy, and you kept the queue open for a while.
Lies!

A true Klingon doesn't need an even battle, we fight, we just fight smarter.

Last night I was in a 5 v 1 situation and I was up 4 kills to 2 before ANY other Klingons showed. I was actually annoyed because I wanted to see if I could win.

I am a Commander 6 flying a Bird of Prey. I don't ever balk at a fight - even when the tables are skewed against me.

Anyone that does is a coward.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-16-2010, 12:05 PM
Simple solutions:

Don't move players into the instance immediately when they click accept.

Once five players on each team have clicked accept, move all players into the instance at the same time.

Remove players from all other queues they are in when they click accept.

Replace the hide button with a leave queue button. Remove the snooze button.

Add a short period of time at the beginning of each match (a minute maybe?) where no one can move, so slow loaders can zone in, players can work out forming teams (or better yet just autogroup everyone when they join), and discuss strategy a bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-16-2010, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar_Ko
The queue already does that. Whichever opens up first, a new instance or one where a player bailed is what you'll get.
No, it does this for the maps you que'ed for, maximum of 4. I want to be shot into the first available map of ALL of them. Once they add more maps this will be a bigger and bigger problem, limiting you to 4.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-16-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojokujo
My god - cloaking issues happen so rarely... I look at pvp as my only way to level, so if the good fight can't be had, then at least fight the fight you have. I have done multiple 5 vs. 1 as a Klingon, and I am even more proud of the kills I have gained in outnumbered situations. I agree there are some roleplaying griefers that find an excuse for hiding under cloak to "give them honor" but the best fights are when you can claim victory in a battle that is not in your favor.
But us RPing Klingons try to remember that we'd only have one life to give...so getting a kill against 5vs1 at the expense of multiple lives lost means nothing...its not much of an accomplishment(no disrepect). Even the great star of Qo'noS shines on a targ's ass every once in a while...but that doesnt mean I'd desire to be a targ's ass...no matter how warm and toasty it is.

At some point conceed that you have been beaten. There is no shame in it, even as a warrior, once your life has been laid down. The only differece is that in RL, after your first defeat, you'd have recognized their victory accepted your defeat and relinquished the challenge while taking your last breath. STO doesnt have such a clean, finite, absolute means of expressing that. Those of us who RP Klingon Warriors accept that finite and absolutness intrinsicly. When we are beat, we are beat....throwing yourself reapeatly into death is "honorless"...not in that the person is without honor...but that the act produces no honor. Anything after that has been established, its just academic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-16-2010, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
But us RPing Klingons try to remember that we'd only have one life to give...so getting a kill against 5vs1 at the expense of multiple lives lost means nothing...its not much of an accomplishment(no disrepect). Even the great star of Qo'noS shines on a targ's ass every once in a while...but that doesnt mean I'd desire to be a targ's ass...no matter how warm and toasty it is.

At some point conceed that you have been beaten. There is no shame in it, even as a warrior, once your life has been laid down. The only differece is that in RL, after your first defeat, you'd have recognized their victory accepted your defeat and relinquished the challenge while taking your last breath. STO doesnt have such a clean, finite, absolute means of expressing that. Those of us who RP Klingon Warriors accept that finite and absolutness intrinsicly. When we are beat, we are beat....throwing yourself reapeatly into death is "honorless"...not in that the person is without honor...but that the act produces no honor. Anything after that has been established, its just academic.
You are wrong.

A Klingon warrior is nothing if he runs from battle because the fight would be too hard. 5 vs 1 is not bad odds. You need to test their skills and watch and be patient. Attack when you have the opportunity and cloak when you don't have a chance.

From a non-rp side, you can leave, thus wasting everyone's time and screwing over the next guy that jumps in right as you leave, or you can finish the instance, thus clearing it up so that another can start properly.

You lose nothing when you die, you get xp no matter what. Why not just play it?

In other words: Grow a pair and deal with it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-16-2010, 03:13 PM
I have been down 6 to 1 in a ground PVP match before. That's right, 6 to 1. I think one of the Feds was actually a Klingon. I love the queue system!

I made them work for every kill the got, made them split into two group and chase me down. I still got in quite a few kills too. There should be some kind of "hunt the rabbit" PVP themed arenas that awards points based off the length of time staying alive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-16-2010, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatec View Post
You are wrong.

A Klingon warrior is nothing if he runs from battle because the fight would be too hard. 5 vs 1 is not bad odds. You need to test their skills and watch and be patient. Attack when you have the opportunity and cloak when you don't have a chance.

From a non-rp side, you can leave, thus wasting everyone's time and screwing over the next guy that jumps in right as you leave, or you can finish the instance, thus clearing it up so that another can start properly.

You lose nothing when you die, you get xp no matter what. Why not just play it?
You didnt run if you engaged and lost/died. If you dive in, get beat to crap and survive(realizing the resistance is more than you thought), there is nothing wrong with sitting back and come up with a solution for victory.

War is more than the singular battle...to re-group and re-organize for a more succesful push is justified. it need not be about fear, but about achieveing the objective. Klingon grunts throw thier lives away for the lowest denominator of honor...obviously just simpliy dying is all they think they can aspire to. Simply throwing your life away at an opponent is nothing compared to sacrificing one's self for a do or die/must have scenerio.

The greatest Klingon Warriors were intelligent, strategic, they chose their engagements carefully and with purpose. They dont fall into the simpleton mind set your dime a dozen warrior. Challenges to leadership, challeneges to life and limb, threats to the Empire, or to their house all illicit immeadiate responses. Throwing away the life of a Warrior(better suited for serving Imperial objectives of purpose or in defense and advancment of a House) for some meaningless engagements or non-value objectives is fool hearty. It seperates the leaders of Houses and Warrior elites from the lowly masses we send in to die at our whims...because they are apparently so willing.

The Eites have nothing to prove...our victories speak for themselves, our willingness to stand up to personal challenges of the doubting and mis-guided proves our fighting spirit and our prowess. But just dying for nothing is worthless, even for a Klingon.

Quote:
In other words: Grow a pair and deal with it.
i spent Sunday night fighting 2 v 10 or more in the Borg Fleet Action. At least there it felt lik ehere was something of value to figth for. It was open, it was un-planned, it was spontaneous, I wasliberated from the scripted nature of the pointless TDM and the ill-concieved Cap & Hold.

We fought a pre-made tooth and nail, using sound tactics while at a dis-advantage. We took our lickings, but had teh freedom to feel that each engagement was a fresh one instea dof the rinse and repeat nature of the current PvP queues.

Interdiction, asset acquistion, running interfernece, etc...was all involved and we could choose, adapted and change combat objectives as the situtation dictated. it was the closest thing to war Ive had in game and so I fought relentlessly with purpose.

In the end, there was no score card, no XP, no credits....but there was purpose, objectives, flexibaility and freedom. Thats worth fighting for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-17-2010, 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Froboz
There should be some kind of "hunt the rabbit" PVP themed arenas that awards points based off the length of time staying alive.
That would be really fun.
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