Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
02-13-2010, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWitt_LSF
Ya know what? You wouldn't have ANYTHING coming for Klingons if it weren't for Jackalope. From the time they opened up in closed beta he's been taking the lead and directing what and how PvE content will be handled for the KDF. You can't just snap your fingers and have content automagically appear.
And what we have now is something? The same 3 things to do for hours on end? The same maps? The same single, viable PvE zone per rank? Over and over and over and over again? A nerf to KDF progression in PvP, the mode of game where we were supposedly geared towards? Sporting the Tier 2 KDF Cruiser which hasn't been implemented yet? Or what about those occasional KDFbriefings in a zone with Starfleet officers? Or how we still use Starfleet symbols and terms (i.e. Exploration badges)? How we really cannot customize our own stupid ships much?

Nothing but alot of shortcomings and half-a**ed s**t for the KDF. The latest patch throws even MORE content to the Feds, who last I saw, already have the entire game catered towards them, while the KDF has gotten JACK SH*T.

There may be talk by the devs about doing this or that, or what they'd like to do for us... Are there?... well anyways, not a godda*n thing has been done for the KDF, and it looks like not a godda*n thing is coming anytime soon.

Don't make it sound like we should be grateful for stuff like this.

Mark my words on this: The next patch adding more content will have very little, if anything to do, with giving the KDF something positive. If anything, it will still be catered towards the Feds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
02-13-2010, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
Yes, there are definitely things on the table for Klingons. I'm a die hard Klingon player and I wanted them in no matter what. Believe me, we'll get more in. Otherwise, I'm going postal.
I love the Klingon faction, playing a Fed makes my skin crawl. I'm liking the direction we are headed Jack. But so far in the last patches it still seems the Feddies have gotten more attention still.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
02-13-2010, 06:31 PM
Specially in Tier 5 I've noticed a substantial drop in Klingon numbers.
This cripples my game experience since I'm one of those rare feds that leveled up almost exclusively on PvP, and now 30 minutes to 1 hour queues is just meh.

So - let klingons create instant admirals, give them free ships filled with "epix", cuz I want people to pewpew with
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
02-13-2010, 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
Yes, there are definitely things on the table for Klingons. I'm a die hard Klingon player and I wanted them in no matter what. Believe me, we'll get more in. Otherwise, I'm going postal.
Would be very helpful for us to know what will be in the 45 day patch for Klingons exactly , as it will influence wether or not we stick around after the 30 day period.

Not really inclined to cross fingers and pay up a month on sheer hope we get something to keep us interested , as all information we are seeing is very vague , and not that reassuring....

Example
Open PvP for instance ( No , Borg Hunt is NOT open PvP ) is it actually feasible with the game engine as it is , or wishful thinking?

Thats the kind of information we need to be seeing on the Klingon side - we need to know what direction the faction will be taking , we need to know that PvP will be made into something worthwhile rather than this current meat grinder implementation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpsy
Specially in Tier 5 I've noticed a substantial drop in Klingon numbers.
This cripples my game experience since I'm one of those rare feds that leveled up almost exclusively on PvP, and now 30 minutes to 1 hour queues is just meh.

So - let klingons create instant admirals, give them free ships filled with "epix", cuz I want people to pewpew with

You will have us back when we have something worthwhile to log in for. Personally , im leveling my Fed and seeing how much of a mess i can make of the newer klingons (The whole PvE thing got tiresome when for the 7th time , my away team decided to get themselves stuck in the terrain)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
02-13-2010, 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmaker01 View Post
And what we have now is something? The same 3 things to do for hours on end? The same maps? The same single, viable PvE zone per rank? Over and over and over and over again? A nerf to KDF progression in PvP, the mode of game where we were supposedly geared towards? Sporting the Tier 2 KDF Cruiser which hasn't been implemented yet? Or what about those occasional KDFbriefings in a zone with Starfleet officers? Or how we still use Starfleet symbols and terms (i.e. Exploration badges)? How we really cannot customize our own stupid ships much?

Nothing but alot of shortcomings and half-a**ed s**t for the KDF. The latest patch throws even MORE content to the Feds, who last I saw, already have the entire game catered towards them, while the KDF has gotten JACK SH*T.

There may be talk by the devs about doing this or that, or what they'd like to do for us... Are there?... well anyways, not a godda*n thing has been done for the KDF, and it looks like not a godda*n thing is coming anytime soon.

Don't make it sound like we should be grateful for stuff like this.

Mark my words on this: The next patch adding more content will have very little, if anything to do, with giving the KDF something positive. If anything, it will still be catered towards the Feds.
OK I will mark your words, and one of us will be eating crow that day. I'm not at all afraid to ay I'm wrong, and I've done so a few times already since I've been here. But I for one believe Jackalope, and I am looking forward to all the PvE additions for the KDF.

We do agree though that far less was done for this faction than it deserves, and a great disservice was done to the Klingon hopefuls. That's the past. Time to move on, and start being constructive on what is wanted, expected and needs changing to make the best of any future content. Ranting and raving gets you nowhere man.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
02-13-2010, 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
Ya know what? You wouldn't have ANYTHING coming for Klingons if it weren't for Jackalope. From the time they opened up in closed beta he's been taking the lead and directing what and how PvE content will be handled for the KDF.

How about instead of that they fire whoever was responsible for not having done the Klingon faction in time for release? Seriously, how much work would it have been to re-script the fed missions for Klingons? It would not have required any additional resources, just some script writing. I could have done it single handed in a few days. It wasn't done because it wasn't assigned to anyone to GET done.

You can't just snap your fingers and have content automagically appear.

And somehow you make it OUR fault that the devs didn't ship a complete game?

We're being unreasonable, is that it?

OK, here's an idea. Cryptic hands out some pink slips, and then lets see how well the finger-snapping routine works? I bet there is a 500% increase in finger-snapping efficiency, especially if they use level 9 pink-slip ability.
Actually, yes, you are being unreasonable but only by virtue of being ignorant of some salient facts concerning STO's release. The original, planned release date was -August- 2010 a full six months difference. The higher ups, however, decided that STO just -had- to come out well in advance of some of the other big IP properties being developed into MMOs and waved a lot of money about as an incentive to get release February 2, 2010 a full six (6) months earlier than originally planned. Therefore everything was rushed and some things were slapped together as quickly as could be because the company felt that they -had- to at least be there at release. One of these things was the Klingon faction. -Originally- they were intended to be a full faction with a heavy PvP slant but as release drew near there simply wasn't time to crank out enough Federation content, let alone a lot of Klingon PvE so it was decided that such things could be left for after launch. They decided to spend more time getting the Genesis system working to automate the exploration missions.

Furthermore there is no such thing as a 'complete' MMO, these things are never finished as development on them is a constant affair: the moment development stops, the game's days are numbered.

As to re-scripting PvE missions for Klingons, it is never as easy as people think but if you've got the bonafides and want to give it a whirl I'm sure Cryptic would love to review your application. As to pink slips, you've clearly never had to manage working teams of real people before in your life ... or at least not for long.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
02-13-2010, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
Yes, there are definitely things on the table for Klingons. I'm a die hard Klingon player and I wanted them in no matter what. Believe me, we'll get more in. Otherwise, I'm going postal.
Yea! thanks Jack i cant wait
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
02-13-2010, 09:59 PM
Actually, yes, you are being unreasonable but only by virtue of being ignorant...

You blame the customers for the game company's mistake. What's the deal with the way fanboys do that? I can just SEE Microsoft telling Windows Vista users that they only complain about security breaches, bugs and poor performance because customers are unaware of Microsoft's corporate problems. Sounds like a winning strategy, doesn't it? And I suppose I'll be expected to cry a river if Cryptic goes the way so many other game companies have in the past, right? No fault of their own! Powers beyond their control! Insane publishers, unreasonable parent companies, yada yada yada.


They decided to spend more time getting the Genesis system working to automate the exploration missions.

Do Klingons have exploration missions? What's that you say? No? And why is that? Was it too much work for them to make Kahlass expanse use that same system? I guess so!

Furthermore there is no such thing as a 'complete' MMO...

Everyone else is doing it too!

The oldest excuse in the book, and one that's unworthy of serious reply.

As to pink slips, you've clearly never had to manage working teams of real people before in your life ... or at least not for long.

I've worked at some of the largest and most profitable software companies in the world, and I can assure you they don't hesitate to get rid of people who are responsible for screwups. In fact, most of them are so over-staffed from all their acquisitions that they are just itching for an excuse to let people go. I normally don't approve of that because it makes for poor morale amongst the "survivors" but sometimes an example or two has to be made when mistakes cost the company millions in revenue. No developer deserves to stay on the job when they are costing the company money. At software companies, the developers are THE source of corporate revenue. Every developer has to pull their weight because its their work that pays everyone else's salary.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
02-14-2010, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiJiang
Open PvP I hope. No amount of PvE will be adequate in the long term. Open PvP is what will keep your customers.
lol this has not been proven true in any game at any time ever. Even Eve online which is heavily PVP has a very large portion of the game population never take part in daily or weekly PVP, but almost all players take part in the PVE content.

Game after game that relies on purely PVP have failed. The more focused on purely PVP they have been the more epicly they have failed. Games that have provided constant and evolving PVE content with optional PVP have easily been the dominant and most successfull models. I'm certainly willing to say I'm wrong if you can prove I am, but I don't think you can. Name a game based purely on PVP that has survived more than 5 years? There are a good number of primarily PVE and PVE/PVP games which have and still do well.

Shadowbane, it had problems but it was purely PVP and most people left
Darkfall, PVP and people left, it's a failure by every report I've heard
RF Online, PVP and people left and it closed very quickly
Age of Conan, PVP/PVE mix but no PVE content end game and people left

WOW, strong PVE / PVP mix and it's a monster

EVE Online, PVE / PVP mix and it's doing well for it's market

Dark Age of Camelot, PVE / PVP mix and it's doing well for it's age and it has done always well, and has constantly added new PVE and PVP content.

Anarchy Online pushed out the door as a largely PVP game but has said many times only a small part of the population actually participated in daily pvp. Many never PVPed at all.

There are tons of purely PVE games that have done well.

I don't know of any purely PVP games that have done well over the long haul or even short haul. If the game does not have strong functional PVE content that continues to grow and evolve the game does not succeed. It is certainly not wise to publish a game that says it has pvp and then have pvp that sucks but STO as a purely PVP game would not ever reach the same success levels of a PVE based product and neither could reach the level of a mixed game. Unfortunately STO is trying to do both and does neither one even marginally well.

I understand your opinion but I believe history clearly suggests your wrong and only a game with real PVE content that continues to evolve is going to last over the long run. This assumes the game is of course solid which of course STO currently is not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
02-14-2010, 02:14 AM
I was rereading some of these posts. It sounds like some players are blaming the Devs directly. I can say pretty comfortably that I think Cryptic has produced not one failure but to, the second worse than the first because they didn't learn from the first. That said I don't think you can blame the devs who actually wrote the game. These are people with jobs and deadlines which they probably did not set for themselves.

I'm sure there have been more than a few arguements about times tables and objectives. No one wants to produce a product the customer isn't going to like. My think someone somewhere told someone else that they could get Startrek Online to Market by a specific date and all the hundreds of shortcuts thas have resulted in this funless shortcut cake were caused in that moment. I read a statement from Cryptic months ago that at this point in the companies evolution it was good enough to produce a game in a very short period of time. The company is just that good now. Well, it's obvious they can but we have to ask about the quality and the potential of a game put together and released so quickly. No matter what the case is or how Cryptic ended up making a 2D space MMO in a 3D world is not important. What is important is to understand it is not likely the Devs we're all hating on had very much to do with the comprimises or the promises that were made. I have to imagine they are thinking about Age of Conan, which I think was more successfull at launch and remember all the job losses and damage a more or less failed game did to their company. Failed games and angry customers isn't good for anyone. I hope Cryptic like Turbine before it will learn from the mistakes they have made and try to correct the situation.

The people who took part in making this game are people. They produced a horrible piece of junk but they did it collectively. I really hope they collectively fix it quickly. I am certain if I were part of the team I'd be working whether I was being paid or not so I continued to get paid. I'd be shocked if 50% of the players who purchased this game are still here by the end of the month. There may not be that many still here now. I don't know the numbers I'm just guessing based on what I can judge from populations I see around me. I could be wrong and everyone is still here. I just don't think they are. On top of this word of mouth is so rock solidly negative it's not likely many new players will be joining us to replace those leaving.

We know mistakes were made. We know the people writing the code likely are not the ultimate people responsible. We need to continue asking them to fix the things we care most about and try to stick it out long enough that they can actually make some improvements. If you leave then keep an open mind and a willingness to come back and check it out again. Instead of asking for jobs to be lost and for families to be damaged we need to be pushing hard for the fixes we really need and want that will not only make us happy but more importantly changes that will enhance the game to a point people who do try it will stay. At the end of the day if jobs do get cut it's probably not going to be the people who deserve to be unemployeed who pay that price.
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