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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Lloyd
Granted, granted. I'm smarter than I post. How else to make sure this gets done ASAP?

Also, you didn't address SubNucleonic Beam. That's a 22-25 second "I win" button.

Have you played in T4? Perhaps you have. I have seen slaughters, but no close matches. I'm sure a lot of players are really p'd off in T4. If I cancelled, which I did (I'll come back when/if they fix it), how many players will cancel and not give a darn about coming back, fix or no fix?

Btw, 92.4% of all statistical citations are generated on the spot.
if skills like subnucleonic beam and viral matrix lasted MAYBE 6 seconds tops I would be fine with it because it promoted skillful play. But it doesn't and it lasts 17 seconds if you don't buff it adaquitely, thats 1/3 of a minute, in competative pvp thats FOREVER.

sad to see you go, but I really hope to get you back (once they fix that crap)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-12-2010, 11:31 AM
I'm a science officer, so I may be a bit biased for subnucleonic beam (I don't use viral matrix, I'm currently commander 10 flying a cruiser), but here's my take on it:
1) It only works wonders when you have 100-125 in aux with additional buffs from consoles,skills, deflectors and the sci ship bonus. At 25 aux (for example) it is nothing noteworthy (8 seconds I think).
2) It's a player ability, not a boff ability. Can you counter The engineer's rotate shield frequency, Nadion inverion, EPS power transfer or miracle worker,? What about attack pattern alpha/omega? Can we remove those buffs?
3) You can still move when beam'd unlike when you're VM'd. Hit full power to engines and run in a straight line. You'd be amazed how often this works wonders, because the enemy has to switch full power to engines (read: reduce power to weapons) just to keep up.

Now, I've never used VM, though I'll give it a try in t4 (played T2 science vessel in beta, T2 escort, T3 cruiser, going for T4 science to give me a nice perspective on how each class handles), but I do know that Subnucleonic shares a cool down with Tykens rift. Now, if Sub shares a cooldown with VM, I don't see a problem honestly. If it doesn't share a cooldown, it should.

If it does share a cool down, and you get VM'd, then beamed, then VM'd, ad infinum, then you are probably
being targetted by multiple enemies and you should either a) die if you are alone as anyone and everyone should loose in a 1 vs. group scenario or b) have your teammates save your ass by killing the enemy targets or healing you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kor_Dahar_Master View Post
Its not the effect that is in question or that it needs countering, its the attitude of "im quitting call me when the thing i dont like is gone".

The game needs a rock paper scissors aspect of these highly delibatating effects or it becomes all about spamming the fire button.


Surely you jest. SubNuc Beam is all about spamming the fire button.

5 Science ships with Science Captains target 5 enemy ships and throw a 22 second "you Can't Do Anthing" Mez on them and Tractor Beam. 5 enemy ships are now helpless. In 22 seconds the Science Ships spam the fire button and kill at least 2 enemy ships and the other 3 are now 5 vs 3. One more enemy ship goes boom.

The Science Ships heal one another till they get the mez back. Rinse and repeat.

You call this skill?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-12-2010, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotti
Attack Pattern Omega prevents it from effecting you. Also, I think it's fine at it is, since the lowly fast recharging science team I counters both and any ship can have science team 1. They just need to make the visual SFX for effected ships more noticeable so that the support ships actually remove the buffs.
The problem with APO being the only counter that works on yourself AFTER you're hit with VM, is the first level of it is a LtCmdr BOff power, thus only escort captains and the Klingon Carrier Captains can use it. Science and Cruiser vessels only ever get up to Lt Tactical stations. Before anyone says, "but the BoP has universal slots", it is classified as a multi-role Escort, thus is included in the escort category.

Science teams on the other had start at the ensign level , so a Lt Science BOff can have ST1 and ST2, which with their 45 sec recharge and 20 sec shared cooldown, would leave a 5 sec window in which you can get hit with VM. Of course if you're hit with it during that time in any ship that can't have APO and noone on your team has ST available (dont' have or on cooldown) to help you , then you're screwed. At least until the patch that fixes ST to be usable after you're VM'd.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-12-2010, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
if skills like subnucleonic beam and viral matrix lasted MAYBE 6 seconds tops I would be fine with it because it promoted skillful play. But it doesn't and it lasts 17 seconds if you don't buff it adaquitely, thats 1/3 of a minute, in competative pvp thats FOREVER.

sad to see you go, but I really hope to get you back (once they fix that crap)

Thanks faithborn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-12-2010, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
1) It only works wonders when you have 100-125 in aux with additional buffs from consoles,skills, deflectors and the sci ship bonus. At 25 aux (for example) it is nothing noteworthy (8 seconds I think).
so its fair to knock someone out of the game for 22 seconds?
Quote:
2) It's a player ability, not a boff ability. Can you counter The engineer's rotate shield frequency, Nadion inverion, EPS power transfer or miracle worker,? What about attack pattern alpha/omega? Can we remove those buffs?
do any of the skills you mentioned... COMPLETELY KNOCK YOU OUT OF THE GAME... no
Quote:
3) You can still move when beam'd unlike when you're VM'd. Hit full power to engines and run in a straight line. You'd be amazed how often this works wonders, because the enemy has to switch full power to engines (read: reduce power to weapons) just to keep up.
your going to die before you can escape, any good player will make sure of that.
Quote:
Now, I've never used VM, though I'll give it a try in t4 (played T2 science vessel in beta, T2 escort, T3 cruiser, going for T4 science to give me a nice perspective on how each class handles), but I do know that Subnucleonic shares a cool down with Tykens rift. Now, if Sub shares a cooldown with VM, I don't see a problem honestly. If it doesn't share a cooldown, it should.
at higher levels you can get the stun to last longer than the actual cooldown, and chain chain chain away.
Quote:
If it does share a cool down, and you get VM'd, then beamed, then VM'd, ad infinum, then you are probably
being targetted by multiple enemies and you should either a) die if you are alone as anyone and everyone should loose in a 1 vs. group scenario or b) have your teammates save your ass by killing the enemy targets or healing you.
just one if it lasts long enough is powerful enough to kill you, chaining it is gravy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-12-2010, 11:38 AM
Not trying to defend overpowered sci abilties now. But seeing how they all scale with aux...maybe its time even for all cannon klingons to put one beam front, and use the "target subsystem aux II or III" to cripple the sci ships ? Im sorry to see so many people saddened and leaving. But there are options how to deal (to some degree) with everything in this game. I wonder, how many of klingons actualy have this skill to cripple sci ships. If im not mistaken the III version can drain up to -77 aux power for some time, at least if you spec for sensors, wich many jamming users do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-12-2010, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Lloyd
Surely you jest. SubNuc Beam is all about spamming the fire button.

5 Science ships with Science Captains target 5 enemy ships and throw a 22 second "you Can't Do Anthing" Mez on them. 5 enemy ships are now helpless. In 22 seconds the Science Ships spam the fire button and kill at least 2 enemy ships and the other 3 are now 5 vs 3. One more enemy ship goes boom.

The Science Ships heal one another till they get the mez back. Rinse and repeat.

You call this skill?
I play feds and I have never had 4 out of 5 ships be science ships (let alone 5 out of 5) on my team. I wish I was that lucky lol. Hell, I don't think I've had 5 science ships on my team in the big capture and hold maps. Maybe that will change when I hit T4 in 30 minutes or so.

And science ships actually healing one another does, unfortunately, give them more skill than the average feds I play with in pugs. If you are fighting 5 science ships, you might be having a bad run of luck against premades?

Also, don't klingons get some sort of ridiculous T5 science ship equivalent called a carrier?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-12-2010, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Not trying to defend overpowered sci abilties now. But seeing how they all scale with aux...maybe its time even for all cannon klingons to put one beam front, and use the "target subsystem aux II or III" to cripple the sci ships ? Im sorry to see so many people saddened and leaving. But there are options how to deal (to some degree) with everything in this game. I wonder, how many of klingons actualy have this skill to cripple sci ships. If im not mistaken the III version can drain up to -77 aux power for some time, at least if you spec for sensors, wich many jamming users do.
its an issue on both sides, and target shields has a much greater tactical value if your not facing vm spammers (I have 2 identical officers except one has ttarget aux 3 and the other has target shields 3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
I play feds and I have never had 4 out of 5 ships be science ships (let alone 5 out of 5) on my team. I wish I was that lucky lol. Hell, I don't think I've had 5 science ships on my team in the big capture and hold maps. Maybe that will change when I hit T4 in 30 minutes or so.

And science ships actually healing one another does, unfortunately, give them more skill than the average feds I play with in pugs. If you are fighting 5 science ships, you might be having a bad run of luck against premades?

Also, don't klingons get some sort of ridiculous T5 science ship equivalent called a carrier?
first point and second points are premade issues

and carriers are balanced when piloted by a competant player, although a little on the weaker side. the only issue that could make them "OP" is the fact that you can exploit to get past the normal ship limit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-12-2010, 11:47 AM
Hmm, didn't know Sub beam had such high returns from Aux.... Would hate to see a nerf to the Aux return as that seems to make aux actually useful. Maybe a longer shared cool down with VM would be an appropriate fix?

Also keep in mind that once the Sci team fix is implemented, you won't get hit hard by VM and sub has a 1 min 30 sec cooldown.
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