Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Torpedoes need a buff
02-07-2011, 08:50 PM
As it stands, when we fire torpedoes at an unshielded side, it is annoying when they get just enough shield to make your torpedo useless. After evaluating the torpedoes, I have come up with one solution to make torpedoes more viable.

Add the following passive:
10% Piercing against shields.

What this does:
If I fire a torpedo, and it hits a shield for 1000 damage (hypothetically), the enemy would take 100 hull damage.

Opinions on this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-07-2011, 09:11 PM
I personally don't have a problem with it the way it is now. It adds more strategy to the fight when having to tractor your enemy and keep them facing with their unshielded side and keep enough fire or debuffs or whatnot to keep their shields down while you fire at them.

If they were going to put something like this ingame, I think it should only apply if said enemy has shields at perhaps 10-20% or less on that side. Otherwise it would give an advantage to people who can fire two or more torpedoes at a time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-07-2011, 09:49 PM
I thought there was 10% bleedthrough anyway.

I agree about torpedoes needing at least a second pass. Right now as it stand there's only this "blast their shields down and lob a as many quantum torpedoes onto their hull as you can"

Chroniton and Transphasic need to be buffed and/or re-worked. Transphasic also seems to have Chroniton's buff (as on voyager we seen chroniton torpedoes completely bypassing shields).

My solution to Chroniton Torpedoes
If chroniton torpedoes stay at the same damage (which is really crappy) I think they should at least be granted 100% shield bleedthrough at all times. I dont think this is too great a pvp game changer or imbalance considering these torpedoes aren't much of a threat even without shields anyways. If anything the devs could toss it up on tribble for a week and see what happens. Personally I think the slowing effect belongs to another weapon. Chroniton has the canon shield penetration ability.

Reference: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chroniton_torpedo

I have really no real solution to transphasic torpedoes; however, getting a Transphasic torpedo landed on your hull has to be bad news. Really bad news.

Reference: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-08-2011, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominick-Kane View Post
I thought there was 10% bleedthrough anyway.

I agree about torpedoes needing at least a second pass. Right now as it stand there's only this "blast their shields down and lob a as many quantum torpedoes onto their hull as you can"

Chroniton and Transphasic need to be buffed and/or re-worked. Transphasic also seems to have Chroniton's buff (as on voyager we seen chroniton torpedoes completely bypassing shields).

My solution to Chroniton Torpedoes
If chroniton torpedoes stay at the same damage (which is really crappy) I think they should at least be granted 100% shield bleedthrough at all times. I dont think this is too great a pvp game changer or imbalance considering these torpedoes aren't much of a threat even without shields anyways. If anything the devs could toss it up on tribble for a week and see what happens. Personally I think the slowing effect belongs to another weapon. Chroniton has the canon shield penetration ability.

Reference: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chroniton_torpedo

I have really no real solution to transphasic torpedoes; however, getting a Transphasic torpedo landed on your hull has to be bad news. Really bad news.

Reference: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo
I completely agree, Mr. Kane. I don't think the torpedoes have ever been updated since launch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-08-2011, 09:06 AM
Well, lets break down all the weapons,
Torpedos: _____ Energy weapons:
Transphasic: ___ Antiproton: _____ Shield bleed through
Plasma: ______ Plasma: ________ Plasma burn
Quantom: _____ Tetryon: ________ Shield kill (not specific to Quantoms but they do the job)

As far as the rest of the torps Verses energy weapons, there no equal effects.
Tricobalt: ___ Could have the same ability to shut down subsystems like the tricobalt mine
Photon: ____ Could have chance to debuff resistances
Croniton: ___ Could have chance to drain energy instead of slow

Phaser: _____ Chance to disrupt subsystem
Disruptor: ___ Chance to debuff resistance
Poloron: ____ Chance to drain energy or could match Croniton slow effect

I know per canon that croniton torps are in temporal flux and tend to go right through shields, however voyager created a defence to this temporal shielding, so Cryptic can use its creative license here and change the perk.
Any thoughts/suggestions
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-08-2011, 09:58 AM
Transphasics need a bit more bleedthrough bonus or at least a bit more damage added to them.

Overall tough, I think the major problem with torpedoes is how shields block most of the damage even if there is ONE point of health. If they would undo shield damage resistance to any remaining damage after the shield is depleated, torpedoes could do more damage.

Quote:
Senario: A Torpedo hitting the shield facing with 1 hp left for 10,000 damage

For the bleedthrough:

10% bleedthrough is subtracted from the hit:
10,000 * 0.1 = 1,000 Bleedthrough damage
9,000 points of damage left for the next stage
NOTE: Resiliant shields discard 50% of bleedthrough, basically:
1,000 * 0.5 = 500 (Resiliant only)

For the Shield Hit at 75% resistance (Shields get 75% resistance to kinetic):

1.0 (100%) - 0.75 (75%) = 0.25 (25%) damage left after resistance.
9,000 * 0.25 = 2,250 points of damage to the shields.
2,250 - 1 points of shield facing = 2,249 damage and no more shield facing.

CURRENTLY that 2,249 is left untouched. If it were restored to pre-resistance values:
2,249/0.25 = 8,996 (Not currently done in game)

And the Hull Hit:

1,000 (Bleedthrough) + 2,249 (Post-Shields) = 3,249
32.49% of the original hit, a reduction of 67.51%
Or:
500 (Bleedthrough) + 2,249 (Post-Shields) = 2,749 (Resiliant Only)
27.49% of the original hit, a reduction of 72.51%

IF we reverse the shield resistance before applying to the hull:

1,000 (Bleedthrough) + 8,996 (Post-Shields) = 9,996
99.96% of the original hit, a reduction of 0.04%
Or:
500 (Bleedthrough) + 8,996 (Post-Shields) = 9,496 (Resiliant Only)
94.96% of the original hit, a reduction of 5.04%
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-08-2011, 11:31 AM
While I can't argue that Transphasic Torpedoes couldn't use some kind of buff (let's face it, they are a joke), Chroniton Torpedoes are quite another matter entirely. The entire point of Chronitons is to debuff, to slow down and effectively reduce their defense. If you want more damage output you really need to go with one of the other more damage oriented torpedoes (Tricobalts are awesome and Quantums are consistant). As it is, Chronitons are perfectly effective at what they are meant to do. In fact, if you use them in conjunction with something like High Yield they will have their slowing effect regardless of whether or not they hit hull or shield.

Aside from that, I disagree that torps should be any more effective against shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umrathama View Post
As far as the rest of the torps Verses energy weapons, there no equal effects.
Tricobalt: ___ Could have the same ability to shut down subsystems like the tricobalt mine
Photon: ____ Could have chance to debuff resistances
Croniton: ___ Could have chance to drain energy instead of slow

Phaser: _____ Chance to disrupt subsystem
Disruptor: ___ Chance to debuff resistance
Polaron: ____ Chance to drain energy or could match Croniton slow effect
Tricobalt torpedoes were updated in a recent patch to apply a 2-4 second disable. Tricobalt mines deal a 4-8 second disable. Target receives a 15 sec immunity to disables afterward

The bonus for photon torpedoes is their fast cooldown (6 sec vs 8 sec.)

Torpedoes shouldn't drain energy, imo. Makes no sense.

There's a reason that beams don't slow enemies. You're constantly firing beams, so you have a nearly infinite chance to slow your target. It makes abilities that root or slow redundant. Chroniton as a weapon that slows a target helps non-science ships reduce a target's speed-related bonus defense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-08-2011, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFZEROSF View Post
As it stands, when we fire torpedoes at an unshielded side, it is annoying when they get just enough shield to make your torpedo useless. After evaluating the torpedoes, I have come up with one solution to make torpedoes more viable.

Add the following passive:
10% Piercing against shields.

What this does:
If I fire a torpedo, and it hits a shield for 1000 damage (hypothetically), the enemy would take 100 hull damage.

Opinions on this?
Torpedoes don't need a buff, you just need to use a type that compliments your playstyle. Qantums are the best if you want something with the best chance t get to a target before it gets its shield back up, as they have the fastest travel speed to target; yet still pack a good punch. All te torp types available in game have built in advantages and traedoffs, which IMO is a good thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-08-2011, 01:53 PM
They are all working fine, there is just one problem....Starship resistance.
I don't know if there is a single calculation for each torpedo fired in a volley or not but 60% (Omega 3) of 0% = 0%
when the "visible impact" is calculated as a "miss". The ability "Brace for Impact" was originally meant to protect you against incoming torpedoes, which requires player skills to see them coming not math skills of our computers. Healing/Resistance has seen too much love lately. I've been firing high yielded quantums more than once on a target with shields knocked out without any discernable effect. A full mk x quantum salvo should take out that hull facing at least by 50% if not protect by Brace for Impact. Stacking multiple +18 resists to kinetic and energy damage makes it even worse. I think when resits get nerfed a bit the rest will automatically become more usable again. Until this happens i stick with torps for PvE and full guns in PvP.
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