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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
11-22-2008, 07:56 PM
Would someone please explain to me the difference between experience going to levels and that of leveling skills? I've never played EVE, and my guess is where the skills come in.

It all does look interesting. I've just come to the boards so I don't know alot of info many of you prolly do so far.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
11-22-2008, 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryTerri View Post
Would someone please explain to me the difference between experience going to levels and that of leveling skills? I've never played EVE, and my guess is where the skills come in.

It all does look interesting. I've just come to the boards so I don't know alot of info many of you prolly do so far.
A couple of things. Though they've said the game will be "skill based vs. Level based" it is not clear what they mean by that. SWG at launch was considered skill based, but it used a system that almost mimicked levels.

Eve's skill system works basically like this. You have skill x the more times you use skill x you incrementally get better at it. The complaints I've heard about Eve's system is that it hinders new players from being able to compete because they cannot catch up.

There are many, many ways to make a game skill based though, so we really do need more information on the system they have in mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
11-23-2008, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
A couple of things. Though they've said the game will be "skill based vs. Level based" it is not clear what they mean by that. SWG at launch was considered skill based, but it used a system that almost mimicked levels.

Eve's skill system works basically like this. You have skill x the more times you use skill x you incrementally get better at it. The complaints I've heard about Eve's system is that it hinders new players from being able to compete because they cannot catch up.

There are many, many ways to make a game skill based though, so we really do need more information on the system they have in mind.
Ok, first of all, let me say that I played EVE for over a year and I can state, catagorically, that the above poster's synopsis of skill leveling for EVE is basically wrong. It's skill system is NOT based on usage of a skill.
Here's an accurate brief on how skill learning occurs in EVE.
Your avatar "learns skills" via accessing "skillbooks", aquired by various means (loot drops, purchasing, mission rewards, etc.) and it takes RealTime to aquire the knowledge. The higher the skillset, the more time it takes (in RealTime) to learn it.
In other words, as a simplified example, if you wish to learn how to use a Battleship-Class vehicle, you need to learn the skill "Ship Captain Level 4" (again, this is a generalized synopnis of how it works, and is not specific to it's actual mechanism in EVE). Before you can learn this skill, you must have learned Ship Captain Levels 1, 2, and 3, and those could have taken you up to several months (in RealTime) to aquire. In addition, you may also need to learn several other skillsets, of various levels, in order to qualify for the right to learn this skillset. Each level of skill in any given area can also give bonuses to the efficacy of the equipment you use. Your personal ability to manuever, aim, and shoot, is pretty much moot...other than the timing of said events in RealTime.
In other words, the mechanical skills of your avatar in EVE is mostly based on a combination of skillsets based on RealTime dedication to skillset aquisition and selection. A person who has been in the game for 2 years can pretty much "wtfbbqpwn" anybody who has been in the game for 6 months, but it's also partly dependant upon the ship and equipment they take with them into the battle. That being said, I've seen solo Frigates killing Battleships in that game, simply because the captain of the Frigate had been skilling up for 4 years, versus the Battlecruiser captain with 2 years of skillsets.
There is no "Grind" as it is known in most other MMOs, just a dedicated RealTime to learning focused skillsets of the avatar and the appropriation of highend equipment.
It's a system that I have found to be largely lopsided toward the vets of the game. It's not based upon the actual personal skills of the individual, and this is the problem I have with such game systems.
I personally prefer a game that is based solely on the personal skills of a Player, rather than on an avatar for it's longevity in said game.
In the Star Trek canon, good Captains could beat the odds with intelligence and cunning. Think of Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru Test. He was, supposdly, the only one to beat it. Yeah, he cheated, but he used his intelligence and cunning to do so.
This is what I would like to see in STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
11-23-2008, 09:07 AM
nice to see progress, i so sick of all the mmo's out there, need STO soon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
11-23-2008, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratus6 View Post
Ok, first of all, let me say that I played EVE for over a year and I can state, catagorically, that the above poster's synopsis of skill leveling for EVE is basically wrong. It's skill system is NOT based on usage of a skill.
Here's an accurate brief on how skill learning occurs in EVE.
Your avatar "learns skills" via accessing "skillbooks", aquired by various means (loot drops, purchasing, mission rewards, etc.) and it takes RealTime to aquire the knowledge. The higher the skillset, the more time it takes (in RealTime) to learn it.
In other words, as a simplified example, if you wish to learn how to use a Battleship-Class vehicle, you need to learn the skill "Ship Captain Level 4" (again, this is a generalized synopnis of how it works, and is not specific to it's actual mechanism in EVE). Before you can learn this skill, you must have learned Ship Captain Levels 1, 2, and 3, and those could have taken you up to several months (in RealTime) to aquire. In addition, you may also need to learn several other skillsets, of various levels, in order to qualify for the right to learn this skillset. Each level of skill in any given area can also give bonuses to the efficacy of the equipment you use. Your personal ability to manuever, aim, and shoot, is pretty much moot...other than the timing of said events in RealTime.
In other words, the mechanical skills of your avatar in EVE is mostly based on a combination of skillsets based on RealTime dedication to skillset aquisition and selection. A person who has been in the game for 2 years can pretty much "wtfbbqpwn" anybody who has been in the game for 6 months, but it's also partly dependant upon the ship and equipment they take with them into the battle. That being said, I've seen solo Frigates killing Battleships in that game, simply because the captain of the Frigate had been skilling up for 4 years, versus the Battlecruiser captain with 2 years of skillsets.
There is no "Grind" as it is known in most other MMOs, just a dedicated RealTime to learning focused skillsets of the avatar and the appropriation of highend equipment.
It's a system that I have found to be largely lopsided toward the vets of the game. It's not based upon the actual personal skills of the individual, and this is the problem I have with such game systems.
I personally prefer a game that is based solely on the personal skills of a Player, rather than on an avatar for it's longevity in said game.
In the Star Trek canon, good Captains could beat the odds with intelligence and cunning. Think of Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru Test. He was, supposdly, the only one to beat it. Yeah, he cheated, but he used his intelligence and cunning to do so.
This is what I would like to see in STO.
I'm sorry if I've been misinformed about Eve. While I may have been incorrect in the way the skills work. My main point though was to demonstrate that there are many ways that a game can be "skill" based.

I will asked this... "It's a system that I have found to be largely lopsided toward the vets of the game. It's not based upon the actual personal skills of the individual, and this is the problem I have with such game systems.
I personally prefer a game that is based solely on the personal skills of a Player, rather than on an avatar for it's longevity in said game."

It seems you are suggesting STO should be "twitch" based? If so I disagree whole heartedly. I do not want a system like Eve, but I do not think the only alternative it twitch based. Twitch based pretty much means those with physical handicaps are incapable of playing these games, and I know to many MMO'ers who are handicapped to believe a system like that is the right direction for anything but MMOFPS's
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
11-23-2008, 01:45 PM
No mention was made of wither it will be consensual PVE. Me and mine aren't about to spend money on a game that annoys the snot out of you because someone thought it would be 'fun' to wreck someones mission or quest. If you have to 'PvP' your way threw the game. We would give it a very reluctant miss. :

In Example:
Enroute to a planet to explore someone decides it would be fun to destroy your ship with there overpowered outclassed battle wagon.

Your away team is on a planet and another 'human controlled' away team decides you don't deserve to be there and annihilated your entire group.

My large 'clan' is extremely looking forward to this game, but not if it will be a 'gankfest' when all some people want to do is play and have fun without the 'my genitals are bigger than yours' crowd destroying your game play. EVE is a prime example of this. The minute you go out of the 'noob' area your space dust. (And some of us didn't care to 'adapt', we just wanted to play the game without human interference)

PVP is fine in a place that EVERYONE agrees to (and this is NOT in the mainstream of the game)

Cheers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
11-23-2008, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Starblazer View Post
No mention was made of wither it will be consensual PVE. Me and mine aren't about to spend money on a game that annoys the snot out of you because someone thought it would be 'fun' to wreck someones mission or quest. If you have to 'PvP' your way threw the game. We would give it a very reluctant miss. :

In Example:
Enroute to a planet to explore someone decides it would be fun to destroy your ship with there overpowered outclassed battle wagon.

Your away team is on a planet and another 'human controlled' away team decides you don't deserve to be there and annihilated your entire group.

My large 'clan' is extremely looking forward to this game, but not if it will be a 'gankfest' when all some people want to do is play and have fun without the 'my genitals are bigger than yours' crowd destroying your game play. EVE is a prime example of this. The minute you go out of the 'noob' area your space dust. (And some of us didn't care to 'adapt', we just wanted to play the game without human interference)

PVP is fine in a place that EVERYONE agrees to (and this is NOT in the mainstream of the game)

Cheers
Have you seen the FAQ on the front page?

Quote:
Q: Will there be PvP, PvE and RP rule set servers?
A: There will not be separate servers for PvP and PvE rulesets. Open PvP will be restricted to designated sectors of space (far-off reaches of unclaimed territory). Consensual PvP and competitive PvE will occur between the realm borders (the Neutral Zone), where players will be competing over territory and resources with the option to PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
11-23-2008, 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinc View Post
It's awesome to see this community thinking about the game as hard as we are! Keep it up! Your ideas help shape the game.
A few of us get a bit defensive with people who are critical on the boards... like we are sticking up for you guys. But really I imagine you all know, as well as we do, when people are being unreasonable.

I really appreciated this part about exploring generated content being unique... In my last post i said "combat" when I meant "content" - We all know it will have fun combat, but what about the "More"...
anyway, here's my favorite quote - I hope you live up to it

Quote:
Exploration is almost endless! Players will be visiting major Trek locations like Vulcan and Deep Space Nine, but they’ll also be beaming down to the surfaces of unexplored planets and making first contacts with new civilizations. Cryptic has developed some really cool technology that allows us to generate exploration content that is compelling and complex. I don’t know of another game that’s taken it to this level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
11-24-2008, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlockman View Post
Ship combat is paced and more strategic. You’ll have to think about positioning, transferring power to boost weapons or shields, and how to best exploit your opponent’s weaknesses.

That Quote makes the space combat sound limiting? mabey not true real time?

What do you guys think about the space combat?
I don't know about that, Bridge Commander was based around a similar principle and I never considered that games combat system to be that limiting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
11-24-2008, 06:29 AM
This sounds very good.I cant wait to play the game.Has anybody got any idea when the game is comming out?
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