Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 629
# 21
06-30-2014, 07:04 PM
If you really want us to test, you need to give us a console on tribble that gives us materials doffs and dilithium we need.



I don't think doffs just for crafting that have no role for assignments is a good idea unless they give some other special bonus. I would just recommend crafting unlocks at the same point in time that you would normally get a doff box (preferably when you first unlock the doff system), and that the doff box you get is GUARANTEED, to have all the doffs you need for crafting, but they can still be used as normal doffs.

Last edited by raptor63549; 06-30-2014 at 07:08 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 58
# 22
06-30-2014, 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor63549 View Post
If you really want us to test, you need to give us a console on tribble that gives us materials doffs and dilithium we need.
This.

Or rather than the dilithium, maybe make the "finish now" automatic, or cost nothing (like the Rep weas accelerated). It's notlike we can take this stuff back to Holodeck.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 629
# 23
06-30-2014, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gettorix View Post
This.

Or rather than the dilithium, maybe make the "finish now" automatic, or cost nothing (like the Rep weas accelerated). It's notlike we can take this stuff back to Holodeck.
That does nothing to solve the fact that purple components require dilithium.

I know I personally can't try crafting the special items more than a couple times due to the 25k dil cost, and even regular Mk XIIs are 20k
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 369
# 24
06-30-2014, 07:57 PM
adjudicatorhawk and borticuscryptic: Since we seem to be forgetting our manners here, thank you for chiming in on the forum. It's appreciated.

Given the testing and feedback from the community, I hope your mgmt chooses to address specific suggestions, not a blanket "we've heard your feedback and made changes" announcement. (If/when one is made.)

Something more substantial would be appreciated.

And if it's not too late...
Given past testing rewards (like the season six tribble), may I suggest a special (free) Uncommon or Blue crafting DOff for those who test crafting on Tribble?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 14
# 25
06-30-2014, 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsnapped View Post
Research & Development:
  • The R&D system now unlocks at level 15.
  • Players that unlock the crafting system will automatically receive a package of supplies and duty officers designed specifically for crafting.
  • These crafting duty officers have no traits or active roster abilities and cannot be sent on duty officer assignments.
After poking around on tribble, I think I can offer some constructive feedback.

  • Converting old materials to new crafting system materials is cumbersome, tedious, and takes forever. This could be better done through an auto-conversion (as there's no choice in how the materials convert, there's no point in having someone click through thousands of buy buttons). I had more than 5500 (old style) mats to convert between today and three days ago. It took me so long that I was bored and didn't do much else on at least one of the two days I was on. (I spent over an hour and a half doing conversions even with ctrl-click buying. To say I was bored during the process is a massive understatement.)
  • The conversion ratio for common vs uncommon seems a bit off. Uncommon yields more mats than common. Conversely, rare yields significantly less than either. Nearly making the rare "ultra rare", common becomes "uncommon", and "uncommon" becomes common.
  • If officers have unlocked the crafting system already (presumably most have in game at this point - even on Live servers, it would make sense to simply email or drop into inventory for a person the new doff pack (regardless of quality, this is an unlock as is stated in the patch notes). If they're simply Doffs for the sake of having crafting, there's no reason to restrict this from a player experience.
  • The steep incline on XP levels from 2 to 3 (and presumably for each tier following) is nearly impossible to climb through without either massive amounts of time or massive amounts of dilithium. It goes from needing to craft 2 (non-component items) (roughly about 10 tasks) to needing to craft 10 - in addition to the components (roughly about 55-60 tasks). That's a huge leap just for level 2 to level 3.
  • UI to determine materials for crafting requires rework (known issue, of course). But, selecting a beam array, for example, to find out what the mats are, write those down, and go back to the components tasks to go through them all seems like a lot of work for something simple. Also, grouping components, then object types, in separate screens may reduce this back and forth by a lot.
  • The materials for the components (at least the common/uncommon items) seems pretty reasonable
  • The duration to create non-component items seems excessive for such small gains. Unless the items confer a greater bonus than those able to be acquired through the fleet stores, or even missions which can be done in much smaller windows, this seems out of proportion with the effort vs reward ratio.
  • The new UI is introducing a bug in completion of original DOff assignments. I had 12 that were in progress on Live on one particular character. before the patch today, attempting to even click on this tab caused the client to crash. After the patch, I am able to click, but click on the rewards/collect button makes a clicking noise but has no action on the back end. I'm assuming this is done to either stop the bug in question or because it is a new bug. (I believe the former is more the case.)

My overall view is that I like the way the original DoFF system has been revamped, looks-wise, on tribble. The concept of the new crafting system is fine. But, it does leave a sour impression for me after having maxed out the crafting system during the first two revisions (prior to 9.5). To have to max it all out all over again in the new system doesn't really feel encouraging or exciting (especially with such a massive climb in lower levels of XP). If there were some credit towards the new crafting system based on previous gains in the original crafting system, I'd be more inclined to want to invest time in it.

The other thought that strikes me as salient is a point made above in the bullet list. If one is able to achieve better rewards, and arguably more consistent, with missions that take less than 15 minutes, why would anyone be encouraged to run through the crafting system?

What is the incentive for someone go through the crafting system at level 50 if they can get better rewards from the reputation system or even from doing a few STFs? The investment of time and materials for the crafting system is significantly higher in order of magnitude compared to fleet purchases or even that of STFs.

I realize prices, time, and XP levels between tiers is in flux and will likely change. I am, however, pointing out that the current tuning could use a lot more work.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 769
# 26
06-30-2014, 10:05 PM
To the devs. Thanks for coming on here and offering some small reply to us. Now to work.

Okay, the Doff system still crashes on the in progress screen for me. I opened up the combined doff/crafting window via the old doff button under the mini-map. Then on that first screen, I clicked the button that opened up the in progress assignments since I have apparently a hung assignment that never completes. Anyway, clicked the button, and crash. Error ticket 33181180, T'real@Malkarris.

Try again, this time I go to the assignments button at the top of the doffing window and then try and click on the In Progress tab to the side. Crash. Error Ticket 33182655, same character.

Other things. So, I open the fourth slot by getting three or more schools to rank 5. I open the fifth slot by getting any school to rank 15. What happens if I pick one school, and put everything into that up to rank 15? At the end, do I just get two slots, or do all the slots unlock automatically?

If the doffs given to us can only be used for crafting, why not put them in their own separate area that does not cost us slots for doffs that can be used on away missions. Also, are these new doffs and the doffs that are used for end game R and D going to have their own slot in the exchange?

Also, why should I skill up in every school the way this seems to be almost forcing me to do? At the end, what would I get? Seven more traits in a system already filled with them, traits that have nothing to do with crafting? Personally, I would think a better and more fitting reward for hitting rank 15 would be a crafting doff for that school. Kinda a hey I heard you're really good with crafting X, I'd like to work with you on that. All of the other reps offer something at the end like that, either a power or boff that is related to the rep, so why not this.

And yes, I know you say that this isn't a new reputation, but look at this and see my confusion. Both systems you throw a number of items and EC at a project, some of these items you have to run a queue for, you get a reward of some kind back, which might be useful, but is more likely junk, and at the end you get the "big prize" and the continuing chance to get something useful for throwing more stuff at projects. So I am sorry, but I'm not seeing the difference, except in scale.

Some more specific questions. We were told that the dilithium prices were placeholder and would be changing. As of this build, they haven't. Will these prices change on Tribble, and if so, when?

What are the chances that a material box from an elite queue run will contain rare materials? Are we looking at every other run, or more like the change to get Mark XII gear from the old STFs before the rep system can in? Tribble is not a good place to run a lot of queues, so the only way you're going to get feedback on this is to give us the numbers.


Overall, still not impressed. Assuming that the dilithium prices do not change, and all the bugs get fixed so that everything works as it should by launch, congratulations, you have hit the bare minimum of something that I will not completely ignore. I'll craft up to getting some of those TR-116Bs, maybe craft up some stuff for friends if they are for it, and can spot me some of the materials, but that's about it. If the only place in game I can get rare materials is elite queues, then I don't really want it. If I'm going to find stuff, I want to be looking for it, not carving it out of the hulls of my enemies (well, okay, if I'm KDF, maybe, but about half my characters are feds, and they want to explore). If you want me to buy into this now, then I want a promise from whoever can make it, that you guys are putting something in to replace the explorations clusters, a place or places where I can explore strange new worlds, seek out new civilizations, and complete missions that give me rare crafting materials without firing a single shot if I so choose. And that this is coming in Expansion 2.

Now I will be forgiving on this promise if stuff happens. I know stuff can happen, but I at the very least want a show from you that you are putting in a good faith effort. I am sorry if you consider that insulting, but past action on Cryptics and PWEs part makes me put that in there.

So, there is my feedback on this current build. Please let me know if you have any questions of what I have said, and thanks for your time Devs.
Joined September 2011
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,775
# 27
06-30-2014, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You are encouraged to dismiss them if you do not need them. That's totally kosher. The reason for including them with the tutorial starter pack is to ensure that players new the system have all the necessary doffs to participate in crafting, though they give no bonus.

Players that have already participated in the Duty Officer system likely already have plenty of the necessary personnel on their ships. So please - dismiss at will!
Okay my 2 cents where I am concerned on this whole system is 1st the doff capacity needs something like the sponsorship for reps system. Especially when it comes to those school traits you'll have to be doing crafting on just about every character due to the dps races and pvp purposes. Then as far as playing mostly KDF for doffing there are very very limited types of doffs used for KDF doffing grinds so hoping we don't need ones like councilors, M/A specifalists, photonic studies officers, civilians, etc.

Then I guess where federation players are heavily invested the Pi Canis sorties is sort of the KDF complaint there. Its using the same old outdated junk and it was basically our resource for crafting materials but we haven't got any feedback on what is going to happen with that place if it will stay as is without crafting supplies or what. Its rough too because I haven't gone there in awhile and its mostly due to if I bring something there I would in an elite difficulty which is almost any qued event I am going to destroy things instantly that will make those missions fail. That being those freighters especially they are a vast majority of the crafting materials looted from them. As well though if not for 9.5 but when and if exploration sectors get revamped or what not would we see one for the pi canis sorties or atleast a post Fed/KDF war version. The Attack Transports, Kalferi, and Erikson systems although very very outdated, glitchy and buggy as heck... They were really the only content for years we had for leveling up, getting emblems/dilithium, as well as the only kind of content loosely viewed as *Raiding*. I'd be surpised if new KDF players even knew about pi canis sorties to tell the truth lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 28
07-01-2014, 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucana66 View Post
And if it's not too late...
Given past testing rewards (like the season six tribble), may I suggest a special (free) Uncommon or Blue crafting DOff for those who test crafting on Tribble?
How about purple like the Season 6 Ang the Vicious?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 30
# 29
07-01-2014, 12:12 AM
The use of mats for making components seems broken to me.

Right now, there are 10 components that need white materials in the making. Out of these

9 need 3 Magnesite and 2 Hydrazine Gas
1 needs 3 Trionium Gas and 2 Duranium (only subprocessor unit under Science)


There are 4 components that need green materials in the making. All 4 out of these

need 3 Hexafluorine Gas and 2 Thoron Particles

The green metal Tritanium and the green Verteron Particle seem to be used in no projects, as far as I can see. pls fix
- 18% -
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 662
# 30
07-01-2014, 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post

. I'm amazed QA is passing these builds, and it's scary to me what the final result will be as with 3 patches in there's nothing but CTDs UNLESS you're only using the Crafting part of the Doff system.
Q..A...? What is this strange concept of which you speak?

Sorry, couldn't resist. If QA were actually present then the majority of "howlers" that have been sent to Holodeck would have been squashed before release.

The saying "publish and be damned" springs to mind
Admiral Rednall
* Server Hamster - This time it's personal *

Last edited by nyxadrill; 07-01-2014 at 12:25 AM.
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