Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 161
01-12-2011, 03:07 AM
Quote:
I agree with this and am kind of shocked that you're suggestion has been so quickly dismissed. I hope this is not an indication of a negative approach to different ideas on this forum.

This is my first MMO. I'm loving the solo play. I would like to play some PvP but of course I'm new to the game and don't yet understand the benefits/obligations of joining a fleet. I would like to one day, but for now I'm a johnny no-mates who is enjoying the PvE (I don't even know what that stands for).

As such, I would still like to jump into some PvP, even if it's not for medals or points. I don't see why I need to have a group to do this. An area where non-teams can participate would be great, although I'm not sure how it could be implemented. I'm sure somebody could think of something.

It would make sense to me as a new comer to the game and the genre. If the klingon players are all experienced team-players then wouldn't they want to play against other experienced players? Can't be much fun for them playing against non-team inexperienced cannon fodder like me!

Create a place for non-team PvP I say. Make it so that little or no medals/experience is awarded. It might seem odd to some of the veterans, but I think you'll find new comers and solo players will get involved, learn and most of all have more fun.

BTW, great thread this. Thank you for all the helpful tips.
The problem is that you can't play without teams. You can play without a Team funcitionality, but you will have people focusing fire. Once you get more then 2 players, you will have players working together - first by accident, focusing fire just because some guys pick the same target, later intentionally, because they know it reduces the opposition and increases their chances, until they turn the table and your "team" starts fighting against itself.

And then, it boils down to known PvP teams where you know if you meet them, you know you won't win, and who wins will be one of the team - unless you also have a group of guys you coordinate with. Even in the chaos of a no-teamed queue, stuff like this will happen.

Also, "unteamed" play doesn't make much sense in the Startrek history and the STO storyline. There is a war between Klingon Empire and the Federation, they won't fight these wars in "Free For Alls", t here is a natural team based on the faction you're on.
And then there are game mechanics - what use is a power like Dampening Field or, worse, Extend Shields, if you don't have allies benefitting from it?

Don't worry so much about the team aspect. You don't need a premade usually. Or a fleet. You just need to be willing to team up in game and cooperate. Of course, if you want to get consistent, top results, you might need premades and a fleet, people that you know how they play and with which you have worked out tactics, and maybe even share a voice "chat" like vent. But to get your feet wet, and even to have quite some time over months of PvPing, you don't need that all.

I don't have it. I lose, I win, and I have fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 162
01-12-2011, 08:57 AM
I'm starting to get the hang of it now. Thanks for the reply MR. Very good post. I didn't realise that we don't actually need a pre made team. It makes sense now though.

It seems that there just isn't enough documentation or even NPC's to instruct players on what they're supposed to do. So basically new players are completely out at sea when they first enter PvP. If there were a 1 on 1 option then that would work. As long as there's some kind of instruction when a player gets their first PvP mission. Something like,

'Go to the ***** system and engage in an arena. If you engage in one of the larger battles, you must use team tactics and focused fire to defeat your enemies. You may also engage in 1 on 1 combat with an enemy vessel. The only tactic required here is that you make good use of your ship's capabilites.'

It was very frustrating as a new player, waiting 15 minutes and then getting beaten 15 - 0 by the Klingons in under 5 minutes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 163
01-12-2011, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igard81 View Post
I'm starting to get the hang of it now. Thanks for the reply MR. Very good post. I didn't realise that we don't actually need a pre made team. It makes sense now though.

It seems that there just isn't enough documentation or even NPC's to instruct players on what they're supposed to do. So basically new players are completely out at sea when they first enter PvP. If there were a 1 on 1 option then that would work. As long as there's some kind of instruction when a player gets their first PvP mission. Something like,

'Go to the ***** system and engage in an arena. If you engage in one of the larger battles, you must use team tactics and focused fire to defeat your enemies. You may also engage in 1 on 1 combat with an enemy vessel. The only tactic required here is that you make good use of your ship's capabilites.'

It was very frustrating as a new player, waiting 15 minutes and then getting beaten 15 - 0 by the Klingons in under 5 minutes.
But you did find the instructions Igard81, these forums can really up your game if you look for the right threads.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 164
01-12-2011, 11:38 AM
This thread was kind of hard to find though. I used google to get to it.

It makes sense to me to have something for new players. The very nature of the game is such that Klingon lieutenants are more experienced than Starfleet lieutenants. That's not a complaint, I think it's pretty cool. Klingons do like a good fight after all.

This probably isn't the place to post suggestions like this, so I'll give it a rest now. I'll go look around for a suggestions/wishlist thread somewhere.

For now though. I don't like the idea of PvP. I've discovered some fleet missions where I get to fight alongside other players against the AI. That seems like it's much more worth while for me until I learn how to PvP better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 165
01-12-2011, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igard81 View Post
This thread was kind of hard to find though. I used google to get to it.

It makes sense to me to have something for new players. The very nature of the game is such that Klingon lieutenants are more experienced than Starfleet lieutenants. That's not a complaint, I think it's pretty cool. Klingons do like a good fight after all.

This probably isn't the place to post suggestions like this, so I'll give it a rest now. I'll go look around for a suggestions/wishlist thread somewhere.

For now though. I don't like the idea of PvP. I've discovered some fleet missions where I get to fight alongside other players against the AI. That seems like it's much more worth while for me until I learn how to PvP better.
Don't bother I have posted a few recommended posts threads before. In no particular order, well in the order I found them in my subscriptions. While many of these posts are out of date the info in them seems to work fine as I still use it.

Key binds to help reduce the click click while increasing pew pew... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=192243

Accolade list, in case you get a case of the OCD... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=162142

Fed Space basic PvP survival... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=115814

Dos and dont's of of escort play, AKA the art of hit and run, know thy enemy when it comes to BoPs and Raptors... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=196309

Insights in to STO game mechanics, you know for a few of those questions that are hard to figure out on your own... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=185099

Guide to building science ships, because science ships are a unique challenge... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=183374

This thread has a few tips on how to simulate team chat without vet or another VOIP proxy. Ya gota dig for it but it should be easy to find just look for my avatar... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=194156

I posted a thread in this post about a sleepwalkers BO loadout for PvE, (Player vs Environment). Makes it easy to PvE on advanced difficulty even if you are not really speced for ground... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=191370

More keybind fun... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=182638

Another beginners guide to PvP biased for Feds but works for both sides... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=192542

A few ideas for dealing with Klingon carriers and as I recall BoPs... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=190618

A discussion about crowd control good for science and science vessels...http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=183123

Crystaline Entity explained here... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=148543

Ground weapons disscused here... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=180954

This combo does not seem to get used as much. Perhaps because we actually sat down and discussed the counters to it, so just in case you run into it... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=178400

How to optimize STO on you computer to get faster loads, and smoother play... http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=73564

A little program that can help you optimize you DPS while it help you figure out what the big meanie did to you... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=161145

A skill calculator to help you plan ahead for your toon's development... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=166437

Ground PvP myths exposed... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=164454

What cannons are best for you... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=160888

The truth behind the fabled Klingon "I win" button... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=150840

STO DPS calculator, so you have an idea of the damage potential your ship can wield... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=195929

And finally what could be the most important post Faithborn's guide to space healing... http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=160645

Whew, nineteen pages of subscriptions to dig all of that up.

Good news is allot of folk sneak links to other important posts into their threads and signatures so what I dug up has even more hiding in it. Best of luck getting you PvP game up and I hope to see you in game. Oh BTW I have found that if you ask for advice after a match in which you were steam rolled the other side tends to give it. Truth told Klingons want a challenging match every bit as much as the Feds so they will give tips in the hopes that you will get better. This thread is truth of that.

Trial and error is the most reliable way to learn to PvP. Do not be afraid to lose nor experiment. Just show up get out there and get your nose busted a few times. It adds character to your face, (sorry little bouncer humor there).

Oh and if you decide to swing Kling be sure to add KDFassistance to your chat channels so you can get advice on that side as well.

Thanks to all the people who make informative posts like the ones I linked. Without your insight I would stink at PvP and still would not have tried it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 166
01-13-2011, 02:38 AM
What a fantastic post, piwright42! Thank you. That post should be stickied on the front page!

I'll go through those links and try to learn a bit more. Still not tried anymore PvP yet, but will do soon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 167
01-13-2011, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igard81 View Post
This thread was kind of hard to find though. I used google to get to it.
I definitely agree that web forums (fora?) are very inefficient for dissemination. Great for discussion, but terrible for databasing and dissemination.

Because I am limited to this forum, however, I do entreat anyone who so wishes, to copy this guide to their own STO Wiki. My only request is that you credit not only myself but all the other contributors that I posted in the Acknowledgements section.

If you have any ideas on how to increase visibility of this thread, please do share them. I can always request a thread re-name as well, if you think the title could be more descriptive.

Regarding stickied links to other useful threads, there already exists such an index (or table of contents), in the Starfleet Academy section:

Looking for STO game info? - Academy Information Index

Once again, thank you for your comments, and please do share any and all suggestions you have on how to improve this guide.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 168
01-14-2011, 07:21 AM
Hi Matt. I hope you didn't take my comments as a critisism of you. You've done a great job with this thread and it helped me understand a great deal of what I was doing wrong.

If anything it's more a critisism of the forum. As a new player who dowloaded the game digitally, like so many others, I've found it hard to find any 'beginners' guides. The Academy thread was the first I visited here on the forums, but I was looking specifically for 'guides' or 'beginners tips'. There's nothing like that.

That's really my only criticism of this game. I'm finding it very hard to get into the MMO aspects of it as a result of no documentation. As I said in an above post, even a few helpful NPC's would be appreciated.

Anyway, I'm probably sounding like a stuck record, so I'll just finish by saying, keep up the good work everyone. I feel like I'll be PvPing again soon as a result of what I've read here. Thank you all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 169
05-22-2011, 02:16 PM
Here's one additional idea, Matt suggested I referred to it here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...83#post3552883
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 170
05-22-2011, 04:10 PM
I honestly didn't read all the posts in this thread, other than the Original poster.

This may have been mentioned, if so you can disregard, but I am under the impression that EPS consoles no longer affect weapons. They will NOT increase your climb back to max after firing, except when you fire something like Beam Overload.

This was changed in Season 2. So, unless I missed an update somewhere that they changed it back, I wouldn't recommend that everyone use EPS consoles. I'd personally suggest a Shield Cap Console instead, and if you can't get one of those yet, armor is always a good choice.

The rest of the stuff you wrote I can't disagree with. Most players can use it as a stepping stone and learn the more delicate things as they go.

Great thread overall.
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