Captain
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,472
# 11
07-09-2014, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
That only applies to the excelsior and assault, though those can be made non-a2b with doffs, though I wouldnt go that why (price, price).
Avenger, monbosh, odyssey (all 20k ships non-a2b non-tac in pugs) can be maneuvered without. Especially the ody would be quite cribbled by a2b.

As for others, no, you think pre-S9, it changed. Also, if you really need to have 125 Shieldpower to stay alive, you might have to train a bit more My monbosh and my vesta both run weapons beyound cap, Aux 124/129 and shield around 100. No problems (and no marion, no zemok, just DCE+WCE).
And here, you really get a bonus out of AMP+Nukara T4.
Sure a2b is nice, you can go fast on high dps, but at the end, it only is the second in power.

Of course, if you go full shields and say 75 aux is enough, its a different story, but here the player is important.

Thats why most high-dps scimis are non-a2b, a2b just takes away a few percent of high-dps.
You really think Excelsior and Assault Cruiser are the only engineering cruisers in the game? How about Galaxy? Dread? Heavy Cruiser? Support Cruiser? The list of cruisers with fewer than 6 tac skill slots go on and on. Most cruisers in existence are, in fact, traditional engineering cruisers, with tac cruisers like Avenger a recent development. They absolutely require a2b to pump out competitive dps.

As for power distribution, if you give full power to aux, you'll be left with less than full in weapons, and minimal in shield and engine. Even if you cycle eptw to pump up weapons, you've just lost 2x amp, not to mention weapons may not stay 135+ all the times with the lower base, resulting in another source of lost dmg. This is why nona2b fit max out weapons instead, and distribute rest evenly to other 3 subs, resulting in 4x amp. Where a2b can guarantee 3x amp, along with the benefits of maxed out shield and engines.

Ppl make out too much of the nukara rep. It's a drop in a bucket. If you sacrifice weapon power for aux, it's a dps loser.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,155
# 12
07-10-2014, 04:17 AM
You are correct for the lower class Cruisers, though I dont have them in my list, as they are gimped by design.

I dont see you problem with powermanagement, I dont have any Problems with it, on non of my chars, but Aux is always between 100 and 125. Weapons are full. Engines on 75. Shieldpower as high as possible, and EptS of course. EptW is of course also in, and DCEs.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,472
# 13
07-10-2014, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
You are correct for the lower class Cruisers, though I dont have them in my list, as they are gimped by design.

I dont see you problem with powermanagement, I dont have any Problems with it, on non of my chars, but Aux is always between 100 and 125. Weapons are full. Engines on 75. Shieldpower as high as possible, and EptS of course. EptW is of course also in, and DCEs.
What "lower class cruisers?" These are amongst the most frequently used fleet ships in game, thanks to a2b. Most cruisers you see in stfs are one of these. Or do you think every cruiser is an Avenger? Btw, you just ran out of power to manage. But that's not the real issue: with 2-3 tac skill slots and no a2b, your faw/beta/tt uptime will be abysmal, if not outright missing.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,155
# 14
07-10-2014, 02:47 PM
Well, lower class is for me if less than lt.cmd. tac BO, and less than 3 tac consoles. They are fun or iconic to fly, but in the end, lower class compared to their alternatives.

You are right on such ships like galaxy. For Avenger, mogh, odyssey to name some, you have full tactical seating avaiable due to universal slots. Another course of action would be doffing it, though its too expensive, so i dont recommend it.
So yeah, I would fly an assault a2b, simply because its effective and any other method would be micromanaging for marginal more performance (like timing faw with beta, so only one zemok is needed and such things, I am not a fan of that either).
But the monbosh, avenger and especially odyssey, I wouldnt fly a2b,its not needed. Its a very cheap, very easy concept, but not necessarily the best for those ships (especially not the Ody).


And were did I run out of power to manage? I got basepower. I got skilltreepower. I got EptX-Power. I got Plasmonic-leech-power (some ships even enhanced with flowcaps-embassy-consoles). I got Warpcore-power. Hell, I can even equip Doffs to grant me more power for a timeperiod (of course "base"-power before triggering it would be over 75). If I go all out i could even use fleetbuffs for more power or traits for temporal improvement. The last sentence I dont even have calculated in my build (except engineers), it just happens.
Thats powercreep. There is an accolade "Earl of Energy", hell, we are Kings of it imo.
Think about Jenas Green Knight, how much power that thing has.

Edit: So, I said Weapons high (~150 for calc), shields 100, engines 75, Aux 100-125.
This means I need 425-450 energy.

My recluse, as it stands over NR, already has 305 power. Now I buff it with EptS1+W3 (65energy) and normal plasmonic leech (4x16), bm got it. Got even more, since it has 4 flowcap consoles, so I got over 100 energy from plasmonic alone.
Vesta is pretty much the same, over 300 base, everything else is history (though no EptX3 but still plasmonic. if not, AP, so no 75 power needed).
Now, of course, Romulan warbird, I got less power, only 260. But, here you can go two ways, either buff Plasmonic leech (yeah, its pretty much a no-brainer, is it). or you can say "shieldspower, who need shieldpower?" and neclect it totally,only getting it to 75, because you either use the valdore-console, or have a premade with either some healer or so much dps, nothing stands long enough to be a threat.

Thats about it, its adaption of the builds (Obelisk-WC or not/can I use Flowcaps?), or adaption to a situation (premade: engines&shields minimum, since I dont need it and can use Evasive/Batteries/Deuterium).
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Last edited by woodwhity; 07-10-2014 at 03:58 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 15
07-10-2014, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Well, lower class is for me if less than lt.cmd. tac BO, and less than 3 tac consoles. They are fun or iconic to fly, but in the end, lower class compared to their alternatives.

You are right on such ships like galaxy. For Avenger, mogh, odyssey to name some, you have full tactical seating avaiable due to universal slots. Another course of action would be doffing it, though its too expensive, so i dont recommend it.
So yeah, I would fly an assault a2b, simply because its effective and any other method would be micromanaging for marginal more performance (like timing faw with beta, so only one zemok is needed and such things, I am not a fan of that either).
But the monbosh, avenger and especially odyssey, I wouldnt fly a2b,its not needed. Its a very cheap, very easy concept, but not necessarily the best for those ships (especially not the Ody).


And were did I run out of power to manage? I got basepower. I got skilltreepower. I got EptX-Power. I got Plasmonic-leech-power (some ships even enhanced with flowcaps-embassy-consoles). I got Warpcore-power. Hell, I can even equip Doffs to grant me more power for a timeperiod (of course "base"-power before triggering it would be over 75). If I go all out i could even use fleetbuffs for more power or traits for temporal improvement. The last sentence I dont even have calculated in my build (except engineers), it just happens.
Thats powercreep. There is an accolade "Earl of Energy", hell, we are Kings of it imo.
Think about Jenas Green Knight, how much power that thing has.
What would you consider the fleet ambassador to be? Though it only has the lt tac and ens tac, it does have that lt uni which can be filled with a tac, as well as the ltcmdr sci.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,155
# 16
07-10-2014, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainoblivous View Post
What would you consider the fleet ambassador to be? Though it only has the lt tac and ens tac, it does have that lt uni which can be filled with a tac, as well as the ltcmdr sci.
That one I would take in the same category as the Ody. One, which doesnt need A2B, but Connofficers for TT. 1xTT,2xFAW,2xAPB, perfect.

Still wouldnt recommend it, since its pricy compared to the possibility of discount with Avenger, or instant-buy of Ody. And it doesnt feature lt.cmdr. tac, making it weaker than those, but still better than Galaxy&co.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 17
07-10-2014, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noblet View Post
What "lower class cruisers?" These are amongst the most frequently used fleet ships in game, thanks to a2b. Most cruisers you see in stfs are one of these. Or do you think every cruiser is an Avenger? Btw, you just ran out of power to manage. But that's not the real issue: with 2-3 tac skill slots and no a2b, your faw/beta/tt uptime will be abysmal, if not outright missing.
No doubt it sucks to lose beta. But yeah using Doffs, 5 of the 6 active. At least Tac Team is Global, FAW is almost always Global, But not too expensive. Not that hard to make up a few mil EC. Them doffs aren't 10+ mil like some lol.

I do wish EVERY fleet ship is was givin 1 Uni slot. But, oh well.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 18
07-10-2014, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
That one I would take in the same category as the Ody. One, which doesnt need A2B, but Connofficers for TT. 1xTT,2xFAW,2xAPB, perfect.

Still wouldnt recommend it, since its pricy compared to the possibility of discount with Avenger, or instant-buy of Ody. And it doesnt feature lt.cmdr. tac, making it weaker than those, but still better than Galaxy&co.
Though the ambo does have slightly higher inertia than the other cruisers in the fed line up, so it will make better use of stuff like a2d. Personally, I went with 2xtt1, 2xfaw and 1 apb as I recall.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,220
# 19
07-14-2014, 05:09 AM
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...thecatbox_5664

It's been a while, so she has better gear and is a fleet version now, but that is how I was flying my Atrox. She should beat 16k easy enough when flown well. I was hitting over 20k before they fixed pets getting permabeta, but I am hitting 18k with her now.

I put an Isometric Charge in the 10th console slot, and I use a Gravemetirc Scientist in my 6th space doff slot.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 362
# 20
07-14-2014, 05:45 AM
I'd ignore the seemingly unanswerable "Does aux2bat gimp DPS?" Question and instead argue that a) its a carrier, b) pet AI is well dodgy, so they kill themselves with core breaches all the time and therefore c) with aux to bat, you'll be flying a carrier that's either unable to launch pets, or the cool down on the launch will be huge.

Not to mention its a bleeding science carrier with either 0 or 5 aux power. All those lovely sci boff stations with no electricity feeding them.

For shame.
Exploding in a massive ball of fire and wreckage since 2012.
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