Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-13-2010, 09:33 PM
Most of it is just lazy mistakes, like was mentioned having ZERO exploit attacks. That makes no sense. It's mostly there are a ton of fed PvE players that dip into PvP constantly, but have never really bothered to learn anything about it in the least. Given the huge fed queues not much we can do about it either, people just get bored and give up on having a fed pvp-based char. On the other hand you aren't going to see half the klink team pug end up being a bunch of PvE'ers trying it out, since there is no klink PvE.

Really, it's the reason that when FvF comes out I'm dropping FvK ground combat as well, cause I'm really getting tired of being stuck in with awful pugs versus in many cases klink premades. At least with FvF there is an equal chance the other team is an awful pug. Expect everyone else fed-side to do the exact same.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-13-2010, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by Slamz
Engineers! Listen up. DEPLOYABLES ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF CRAP. I'm sorry, but it's true. All of your deployables are stupid and worthless and awful. Throw your stupid deployable kits in the garbage immediately. If you want to whine to Cryptic, feel free to do so but in the meantime GET A BETTER KIT.

It takes long enough to finish that stupid "Destroy 10 Turrets" quest as is now.

( :p )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-13-2010, 09:57 PM
I believe I complete the "Kill 50 ground-based NPCs" quest on my klingon character in one match once.

I think that says enough about all-engineer deployable spam effectiveness. (Believe me though, I was scratching my head going "Where am I going to find ground-based NPCs as a klingon?)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-13-2010, 10:18 PM
You'll probably find that most of the more talented/commited Federation PvPers prefare Space Combat for numerous reasons.

It is however true of both sides. PUGs for both the Feds and Klingons comprise equally dull and untalented PvPers and both win and lose, roughly 50/50. Pre mades however are again, much the same. As I stated above, you will find more Federation pre mades in space and almost non for ground combat.

Now, the advice given in the OP is nice, but quite useless when facing an organised pre made on the ground. No amount of hypos/shield pops, sprinting, crouching etc will keep you alive against a 5 man zerg with ample stuns and holds.

Feds will improve when we learn that to go on the offensive is to win, to spam stuns and holds is to win, to utilise flanking and to guzzle as many devices as you can in a fight is to win. And of course, to group up with good voice comms or other forms of communication.

Best tips? Fight dirty. Leave your e-honour at the entrace.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-13-2010, 11:33 PM
Griffin, I think you'd be surprised at how many Klingon pugs play like premades. At least the pugs I've solo joined, the Klingons usually do a decent job of sticking together and getting good damage numbers.

I also think you'd be surprised at how little our premades communicate in Vent. Occasionally we'll say "one coming from behind", which is something you could see anyway on the minimap but there's generally not much need for calling targets or anything like that.

In space, I'd agree with you. Premades on voice comms have a huge advantage over pugs but on the ground I think pugs and premades can be on equal footing if they are equally talented individuals.

So when I say I'm tired of one-sided matches I don't just mean when I'm in my premade. Even pugging it we always win, usually with final score of 40-20 or better. I'm sure there are terrible Klingon players out there but there are a lot more terrible Fed players. And some of their mistakes (like not having or using an exploit weapon) is just a head scratcher.

If I could change the thread title, I would change it to "Ground: Why Feds Are So Awful". It's a dig, but they deserve it, on account of how horrible they are at ground combat. Getting tips from a Klingon comes at a cost of getting my digs in.

I wish there was a global Klingon channel so we could say things like, "Hey, start queuing for KvK ground combat! I'm sick of fighting these worthless Feds and need some real competition."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-14-2010, 12:05 AM
Nice post, and unfortunately for the most part very true...

In Ground pugs most fed players just don't seem to be focused on sticking together and giving you guys a decent challenge...and, I got sick of my main being ripped apart in 40-0 ish matches.

So, I've created a new character with the firm intention of finding a fleet, and playing with a set of people who actually want to fight as a group. point. Not going to play pugs any more...let the teens run around getting picked off 1 at a time by a bunch of five Klingons. I want a decent game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-14-2010, 12:23 AM
You can't exploit when you have 4 other klingons knocking your ass down... Trust me.. I'm banking on the exploit blaze.. but something is wrong when I hit that and the guy doesn't vaporize?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-14-2010, 12:25 AM
I've been playing ground on my alt (Kant). I think I could roll most of these fed teams alone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by blackbox77
I've been playing ground on my alt (Kant). I think I could roll most of these fed teams alone.
ya right... if you shoot and kite.. maybe...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-14-2010, 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by Slamz
Granted I realize that sometimes Feds get shafted with people like this: (right click, save as)

But in general, you people are just awful at ground PvP. You're so awful, it's not even fun for me. I'm tired of games with 40 to 5 scores. It's been true T1 - T4 and on my alt it's still true T1 - T2 on the second pass.

You people are terrible.

Here's just a few pointers:


You have a map. It is mini. It shows you where your teammates are. You should try to find them. Finding your teammates takes priority over finding enemies unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

2) Get a split beam rifle.

What weapon are you using right now? That weapons sucks. I don't care what you answered my question with. It sucks. Throw it into the dumpster. I don't care if it's a purple dual pistol drop that you paid 2 million credits for. It's trash. Get a split beam rifle. If you're tactical with a lot of ground combat training (T3+) get two.

The sniper rifle is superior in a 1v1 fight. Are you fighting 1v1? No. So get a split beam as your exploit weapon. For your second weapon either get a second split beam (guns do not share timers, even two identical guns) or a good expose weapon. I personally suggest a stun pistol (which has good range on the special attack) or a "full auto" weapon, which will have good range. The other pistols don't have enough range to do what you need them to do and the cylinder AE weapons don't hit enough targets. Get a good long range cone AE expose weapon to go with your good long range cone exploit weapon.

Or, as mentioned, just get two good exploit weapons, especially if you're Tactical (I do so much damage with full ground combat training that I don't need an expose to get a lot of kills).

Don't bother with melee unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

3) Get the proper kit.

Engineers! Listen up. DEPLOYABLES ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF CRAP. I'm sorry, but it's true. All of your deployables are stupid and worthless and awful. Throw your stupid deployable kits in the garbage immediately. If you want to whine to Cryptic, feel free to do so but in the meantime GET A BETTER KIT. Weapon malfunction is a great ability. Mines are pretty good. That shield thing that buffs your resists is good. Just stay away from deployables.

Scientists! Actually none of your kits are awful but I suggest you go for the kits that do the most number of AE exposes. Think of an expose attack as an ability that says, "10% chance to allow you one-shot your opponent". Get those. The heals can be helpful too but you're rarely going to have the reaction time to cure an expose so I think the usefulness is fairly limited. If people want heals they can carry hypos.

Tacticals! Most of your kits are good. I'd stay away from Close Combat kits because melee is mostly just silly but cloaking can be a good way of dashing behind an enemy group and getting some great flanking shots. I personally like the Security kits because of the resist buffs and the "fake expose" which causes enemies to waste their special attacks (and also further buffs your allies' resists) but the Fire Team and Operative and Squad Leader kits are all handy too. Just make sure you keep your buffs up all the time.

4) Medium/Large Hypos. Stock up.

Find the vendor that sells T1 ground equipment for cash. He'll sell small, medium and large hypos. T2 and beyond you'll have plenty of money to blow on these things. Every slot on your character and in your backpack should be filled with these things. They cycle fast, they're big heals, they're cheap, there's no reason not to carry a hundred of them. There are also +damage expendables you can use that are on a separate timer from the hypos. There are also shield heal expendables but I don't find them that useful because shields heal so fast anyway.

I would probably never kill anyone with my bat'leth if you idiots would just use hypos.

5) Rolling ups your defense. Sprinting ups your defense. Roll and sprint more.

6) Are you taking fire? Get behind cover, you incompetent toh-pah!

7) Deal with melee spam.

If someone gets in your face, either get away from them or spam your rifle melee attack until they get exposed, then disintegrate them. If you don't do it to them, they'll certainly do it to you. (I usually sprint backwards away from these people because I'd rather bet that I can kill them with gunfire than take the 50/50 chance on melee spam to see who can expose who first).

8) Learn what the "expose" symbol looks like.

It's a red rotating circle type thing. If you see it on yourself then you're probably dead. In the unlikely event you can actually move, hide behind cover until it goes away.

Being exposed by most sources will cause a 10 second hold which means you won't be able to do anything except wait to die. It sucks. I agree. You'll just have to deal with it like everyone else.

9) Target Next Exposed

There is a keybinding for this. By default I believe it's bound to "G". It targets the next exposed person. This is very handy. Although your split beam rifle will tend to guarantee that you can hit exposed people without aiming at them, targeting them first will guarantee the hit.

10) Adjust your controls.

Did you know you can turn off that "zoom" feature when you go into aim mode? Makes ground combat soo much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

I also personally have my ground controls set up so that I never "automatically face off screen targets" (which will get you killed) and so that nothing I do will cause me to select a target unless I actually hit TAB. Normally I just hit "fire" and let it shoot whatever is in front of me. With my awesome split beam it really doesn't matter that much what I'm targeting anyway because I'm going to hit everything in a cone in front of me. Sometimes I will target someone to make sure I can chase them down and finish them off but I rarely find this to be necessary.

It's rarely necessary because most of you are idiots who will stand there behind your worthless deployables, firing your stupid worthless pistol and not healing yourself with hypos because you didn't bring any and not taking cover, so I can kill you without actually needing to target you anyway.

Now, heed this message and go forth and suck no more. You're boring me to death with your horrible, incompetent gameplay. It's like you're trying to grief me out of the game by just sucking as badly as you all do.

By the way, Jackelope, thanks a lot for rewarding the losers so richly that most of them don't even care enough to try.

I know you trying to be helpful etc.. but you personally come off being an ass and one of the WoW arena freaks that always annoys the crap out of me.

Actually the Science officers can't use aoe damage kits kill t3 I think it was... so till then.. Sci officer kinda blow in ground pvp..

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