Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 75
# 21
07-15-2014, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Slot a ENS-level "FAW1" for the 360 AP to get rid of plasma torps heading your way for emergency situations. Otherwise use it with subsystem targetting. Slot the KCB+console for your second choice.

The third?

I'm shocked you haven't thought of it yet. You're running a maxed-aux sci build. Think about it....


Web mines, baby! The higher your aux the more damage they do! Or tractor mines or cluster mine, something practical (i.e. not just a TCD or photon).
This is my first pass through on this:

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=rsvtorp_6771
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 331
# 22
07-16-2014, 09:05 PM
Here is my Grav Well Plasma Torp Boat build atm.

I have the relevant Sci skills for this at 6 or 9, Projectiles and Advanced Projectiles at 6.

I also have 15.9% CrH, which is why I use the standard MkXII Plasma torps at [CtD]x3, for regular big torp booms a lot of the time. This includes bonuses from the two universal consoles, the Vulnerability Locators, Space Traits and the Romulan BOFF from Fleet. I could probably squeeze a little bit more CrH by getting Adv. Projectiles to 9 (I think another 1.2%?)

Placing of the torps is for maximizing the cooldown reduction. Hyper-Plasma fires off first, preferably with Torp Spread II, then the clock goes down on the cooldowns, I turn around, normal Plasma fires first, and the Omega fires off for as long as it takes till I'm aligned with the front torps again. Tac Team I and both Torp Spreads used whenever they're off cooldown.

3 purple projectile recharge DOFFs and 2 deflector cooldown reduction DOFFs.

I get good sized Gravity Wells, running at 135 Aux constantly, which the Obelisk Warp Core allows (weps to as low as poss, shields high, eng moderate) could be even bigger using the Reman MkXII Deflector, which has a ridiculous Grav Gen bonus, but I like the Adapted MACO just fine (I like the structure boost), and 2 pieces of the set gives a bonus to Projectile damage. I'll probably get a Jem'Hadar MkXII as it has slightly higher bonus for GravGens than the Adapted MACO, plus similar all-round goodness for other Sci abilities.

When I use the Science-boosting stealth Active Rep ability (forget which space rep it comes from) the grav wells are hilariously big (e.g. in Undine space Battlezone, it pulls in just about all the ships in an area into a glorious cluster for everyone to wail on, lots of warp core breaches too), but that ability has a long cooldown so I can only pull that trick off once in a battle (twice in, say the Undine space battlezone). I also have both the Nukara Aux-based passives.

I second the idea someone said above, of Using TRII, immediately after a GWIII, it does good business in keeping the mobs tame and in place, and TRII's contribution to damage as a "pet" is fairly decent (though sadly all Part Gens doesn't seem to make that much difference, so I stick to Grav Gens for the GW size boost). Energy Siphon II to keep the chance for the 2 Deflector DOFFs to do their thing and to generally boost everything for a bit when focussed on a big ship (I also have FlowCaps at 6).

Get around 6-7k average DPS in STFs with this, 8k-ish if the stars align, which I think is not bad for a Science ship. But thinking of getting DPS higher, maybe by flying one of the Sci ships (Wells is one IIRC) that can give a Lt Cmdr + Ens Tac BOFFs, so I can have 2 Tac Teams, plus Torp Spreads II and III, with the CounterCommand Deflector (bonus to Projectiles) and maybe adding that Ferengi Uni console that gives extra Projectile damage too (could probably sacrifice one of the Fleet Neutroniums for that), might be able to push up to 10k with all these bumps, but I'm not sure. I think this region is probably about as much as you can get out of a Sci ship though, no way in hell is a Sci ship ever going to hit the 10-20k region in any configuration. It's just fun to try and push it anyway.

Ship is also fairly shield-tanky too, can tank a Cube fairly easily.

Last edited by gurugeorge; 07-16-2014 at 09:21 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,068
# 23
07-16-2014, 09:15 PM
So I put forward the question, how would you maximize the graviton generators skill to a ridiculous maximum.

I'll start, add on as you see fit:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Joined_Symbiote = +6.7
Romulan Prototype Deflector Dish Mk XII = +39.4
Skill maxed = +99
Fleet consoles (Grav gens) = +159.5
Tachyokinetic Converter = +17.2
Reman or Romulan 2-piece = +17.5
Assimilated module = +22.9
Psychological warfare = I assume a 20% boost to size.

Total = 362.2

Last edited by lucho80; 07-17-2014 at 06:36 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 331
# 24
07-16-2014, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucho80 View Post
So I put forward the question, how would you maximize the graviton generators skill to a ridiculous maximum.

I'll start, add on as you see fit:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Joined_Symbiote = +6.7
Romulan Prototype Deflector Dish Mk XII = +39.4
Skill maxed = +99
Fleet consoles (Grav gens) = +159.5
Tachyokinetic Converter = +17.2
Psychological warfare = I assume a 20% boost to size.

So on base skill alone, we are at 321.8. Care to keep adding more if someone sees something I missed?

Note: I love sci toon max builds. Fun times when sci abilities get pushed to the max.
I agree, it's just a shame that GravGen and FlowCaps pushing seem to be the only areas that do something special. I'd like to see Part Gens, Countermeasures and the other two be able to do things just as spectacularly if you invest in them. But I guess the devs are wary of pushing the other abilities as they're the ones that aren't so much fun to be on the other end of in PvP, so there would be QQ-ing, and we'd be back to square one like at the beginning of the game's development

Plus I'd like to see the devs ensuring that Sci captains investing in Sci abilities in Sci ships are able to use Sci abilities to much better than anyone else, but instead whenever the the devs make a Sci change it seems to benefitTac captains in Sci ships just as much (like the GW boost). Kind of annoying.

Last edited by gurugeorge; 07-16-2014 at 09:28 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,068
# 25
07-16-2014, 09:29 PM
Forgot Reman or Romulan 2-piece = +17.5

New total = 339.3

Note: I'm not counting boosts like fleet +10 and assignment +25 since they're temporary.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 832
# 26
07-16-2014, 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucho80 View Post
So I put forward the question, how would you maximize the graviton generators skill to a ridiculous maximum.
I seem to remember you engaging in this activity before Lucho. I don't believe anything new has been added since that discussion that could enhance the size of a gravity well any more then at that time. Also I think you forgot the assimilated module that time as well.

Psychological warfare dose not boost gravity well radius. This is a shame because then we might be able to achieve something truly epic. Sadly it only effects pull strength.

According to my spreadsheets a graviton generator skill of 339.3 should net you a diameter of 16.18km at 125 aux power.

I am afraid my testing of the skill's effects has been limited by the time for which I can hold the attention of test subjects so I don't have the necessary data to calculate for 135 aux.

Whilst not entirely accurate you can fudge a guess at well radius with this thumb rule:

3km + (Graviton Generator Skill X 0.015)

This assumes a level 3 well with 125 aux power.

Last edited by pwstolemyname; 07-16-2014 at 11:35 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 303
# 27
07-17-2014, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucho80 View Post
So I put forward the question, how would you maximize the graviton generators skill to a ridiculous maximum.

I'll start, add on as you see fit:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Joined_Symbiote = +6.7
Romulan Prototype Deflector Dish Mk XII = +39.4
Skill maxed = +99
Fleet consoles (Grav gens) = +159.5
Tachyokinetic Converter = +17.2
Psychological warfare = I assume a 20% boost to size.

So on base skill alone, we are at 321.8. Care to keep adding more if someone sees something I missed?

Note: I love sci toon max builds. Fun times when sci abilities get pushed to the max.
I've been wanting to put a sci toon in a sci ship. I did not think speccing for graviton was worth it since part gens effects damage. Was I missing something?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,068
# 28
07-17-2014, 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryakidrys View Post
I've been wanting to put a sci toon in a sci ship. I did not think speccing for graviton was worth it since part gens effects damage. Was I missing something?
S9.5 adds a grav gen that adds more crit chance to exotic damage. You loose 1.9 grav gens with it, but add some more damage to the grav wells.

Assimilated module = +22.9

New total = 362.2

pwstolemyname - Use the obelisk warp core and a leech console or Energy siphon to get aux to 135. Then things get really nice at 135.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryakidrys View Post
I've been wanting to put a sci toon in a sci ship. I did not think speccing for graviton was worth it since part gens effects damage. Was I missing something?
The devs feared the damage grav wells could cause using the old formulas (Which only worked on GW1) so they nerfed GW2 and GW3 when they fixed them. Had they fixed GW2 and GW3 and had kept the original formulas, then yes, GW would have been awesome with part gens.

Anyway, in this game, having effective science skills requires going completely overboard because all the science skills are too weak to do anything useful otherwise. Below are the science offensive skills.

Note: I'm keeping out starship sensors, but a nebula build with high sensors is pretty useful for detecting cloacked ships from great distances.

Skills I know are useful (Partially because the global CD of stuff that uses these are better than the rest):
Flow capacitors - Power drains and even tachyon beam perform well on an extreme build.
Graviton Generators - I've seen massive grav wells decloak a lot of ships and then grav torpedoes trap and damage ships.

Skill that could be useful:
Countermeasure Systems - Is a scrable sensors 3 with Seggis and this skill pushed to the maxed useful? Anyone have a build like this? In paper, it seems it would be useful.
Particle Generators - In theory, this one pushed far could cause a lot of damage, but haven't bothered checking this one out.

Skills that seem like garbage:
Subspace Decompiler - If someone has something nice to say about this one, feel free. If someone has bothered to test a toon with this pushed to the max and stuff like Viral Matrix 3 or Charged particle burst, feel free to chime in. I have yet to see proof the skill point cost of this skill is worth pursuing a build that maxes it.

Last edited by lucho80; 07-17-2014 at 06:56 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 331
# 29
07-17-2014, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryakidrys View Post
I've been wanting to put a sci toon in a sci ship. I did not think speccing for graviton was worth it since part gens effects damage. Was I missing something?
I've tried all PartGens as opposed to all GravGens, and the difference it makes to GW is negligible, and the difference it makes to Tykens is a bit better, but also not terribly impressive (e.g. in relation to the damage you're doing with torps, say). Much more fun to have a bigger cachement area for GW, IMHO.

I've just gotten Psych Warfare, so will see if more pull + bigger well = even more fun.

As people have been saying, it's pretty annoying that FlowCaps and GravGens are the only mods that seem to make much of a difference to anything Sci, which means the two really viable build types that do anything genuinely powerful that's Sciencey are Mega Wells for PvE and Drain Boats for PvP, and that's your whack.

I tried Scramble Sensors with all Countermeasures: again, negligible difference in length of confuse, if you've already got 6 in the relevant skill. Coupled with GW Scramble Sensors is definitely quite amusing, but you get more bang for buck from GravGens for GW, or possibly PartGens for Tykens; plus mobs' own attacks are pretty weak, so the only benefit is really a kind of defence (they're not shooting at you for a bit, which is quite handy fired off immediately after a GW, since GW always gets them angry at you). I don't see the point in the DOFF for Scramble Sensors (Seggis?) - after all, you want them to be shooting MORE at each other, not less. You want it to be a glorious ruckus where they melt each other down a bit, but it's not that, it's just an amusing little sideshow.

Come on Cryptic, please get it together: let's have Sci captains in Sci ships who invest heavily into the other lines, in terms of both the relevant skills and the relevant modules (+ deflectors, etc.) do equally as impressive things as Mega Wells and Drain Boats. Those two are situated nicely now, let's bring the rest of Sci stuff up to par.

What would be nice would be to be able to go above 99 in skills if you go into red for one of the "underdeveloped" Sci skills - maybe more like 120 or something. Then you wouldn't need to mess with modules too much (at the risk of having Tacs benefitting unduly yet again). (There are probably some more specialized Eng skills that could do with the same kind of special treatment.) I don't know if it's a programming difficulty, or just some aesthetic preference for everything having the same steppings and DR, but if it's just aesthetics, screw aesthetics, let Sci have some love. Let a confuse build really confuse, a hold build really hold (have different numbers for PvP if it's going to upset players too much).

Another option might be to have Sci modules in Sci ships for Sci captains have slightly better numbers, so a dedicated Scientist could split half and half between PartGens and GravGens, for example.

More tailoring and fine-tuning please.

Last edited by gurugeorge; 07-17-2014 at 07:58 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,068
# 30
07-17-2014, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurugeorge View Post
I've tried all PartGens as opposed to all GravGens, and the difference it makes to GW is negligible, and the difference it makes to Tykens is a bit better, but also not terribly impressive (e.g. in relation to the damage you're doing with torps, say). Much more fun to have a bigger cachement area for GW, IMHO.

I've just gotten Psych Warfare, so will see if more pull + bigger well = even more fun.

As people have been saying, it's pretty annoying that FlowCaps and GravGens are the only mods that seem to make much of a difference to anything Sci, which means the two really viable build types that do anything genuinely powerful that's Sciencey are Mega Wells for PvE and Drain Boats for PvP, and that's your whack.

I tried Scramble Sensors with all Countermeasures: again, negligible difference in length of confuse, if you've already got 6 in the relevant skill. Coupled with GW Scramble Sensors is definitely quite amusing, but you get more bang for buck from GravGens for GW, or possibly PartGens for Tykens; plus mobs' own attacks are pretty weak, so the only benefit is really a kind of defence (they're not shooting at you for a bit, which is quite handy fired off immediately after a GW, since GW always gets them angry at you). I don't see the point in the DOFF for Scramble Sensors (Seggis?) - after all, you want them to be shooting MORE at each other, not less. You want it to be a glorious ruckus where they melt each other down a bit, but it's not that, it's just an amusing little sideshow.

Come on Cryptic, please get it together: let's have Sci captains in Sci ships who invest heavily into the other lines, in terms of both the relevant skills and the relevant modules (+ deflectors, etc.) do equally as impressive things as Mega Wells and Drain Boats. Those two are situated nicely now, let's bring the rest of Sci stuff up to par.

What would be nice would be to be able to go above 99 in skills if you go into red for one of the "underdeveloped" Sci skills - maybe more like 120 or something. Then you wouldn't need to mess with modules too much (at the risk of having Tacs benefitting unduly yet again). (There are probably some more specialized Eng skills that could do with the same kind of special treatment.) I don't know if it's a programming difficulty, or just some aesthetic preference for everything having the same steppings and DR, but if it's just aesthetics, screw aesthetics, let Sci have some love. Let a confuse build really confuse, a hold build really hold (have different numbers for PvP if it's going to upset players too much).

Another option might be to have Sci modules in Sci ships for Sci captains have slightly better numbers, so a dedicated Scientist could split half and half between PartGens and GravGens, for example.

More tailoring and fine-tuning please.
No comment on subspace decompiler? What I've gathered is part gens and countermeasures are both junk.

One thing, S9.5 adds a grav gen console that improves the crit chance on exotic damage, so at least they gave us one toy to play with when using grav gens and you only loose 1.9 skill on a maxed build.
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