Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-14-2010, 09:56 AM
I was detected in two different games yesterday in cracked at 11km by the same science captain, can't remember his name offhand.

First time I've been detected beyond 8km (very common to be detected inside of 8km if the sci is running aux).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=115814

The cloak does not create the 'ball'. The short range of support abilities creates the 'ball'.

You can still support different formations, but if you need to shift into defensive/support mode, you will need to collapse into a 'ball', regardless of the enemy.

What breaks a ball? AOE.
I hate to be blunt but you are really, REALLY dumb. Please stop spreading misinformation on these forums and passing it off as fact. Of course cloaking leads to the ball tactics. It's simple, would ball tactics exist if cloaking weren't in the game? No, not outside of premades. Pugs would just be warzones where everyone would fly to the middle once they zoned and battles would happen there.

You're also the one who pretends like there's some magic way to detect ships that only you know about, which is pretty pathetic since I'm working on my third T5 character since open beta. So please. Either man up and post the screenshot on here, or just stop talking.

Thanks.

-Informed people against idiots.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-14-2010, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTray View Post
It's simple, would ball tactics exist if cloaking weren't in the game? No, not outside of premades.
I think you just contradicted yourself. Teams who want to survive and support each other will still use the 'ball' in defensive mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTray View Post
You're also the one who pretends like there's some magic way to detect ships that only you know about, which is pretty pathetic since I'm working on my third T5 character since open beta. So please. Either man up and post the screenshot on here, or just stop talking.
I think you have me confused with someone else. I never said that I, personally, have detected anyone at long range. But I have been in groups with detectors. Regardless, I never even brought that up in this thread, so I'm curious where this bite is coming from?

I'm no Science captain (yet), but if I had to guess, I would say to invest skill points in the relevant Sensors skills, invest skill points in the AUX ability skills, get the best Sensor deflector and consoles appropriate to Sensor Scan, run at max AUX with Emergency Power to AUX (and possibly an AUX battery), and then hit Sensor Scan.

I'll ask some Science captains to take a screenshot of the detection.


On a side-note, is there any reason to be rude to people over a game? Chill out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-14-2010, 10:28 AM
If you think it's OP then make a Klingon and pvp to T5, then tell me what you really think. I have played fed side to T2 so far. I can also imagine what Feds need to do (group up, if they die, don't rush back unless group says too). The problem with fed side at least in T2 is they don't communicate with eachother, those that do generally get the win, regardless of this so called OP cloak.

Yes, the problems with pvp are so much greater. How you can help? Make a Klingon, they are needed and their problems must be heard. Pvp is dying...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-14-2010, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otheym81 View Post
Anyone sick of hearing both sides of the argument?

First off, it's not overpowered. Does it have issues? Yes it does. PvP is a mess atm, and the sooner Feds and Klings realize the real issue, the faster PvP can get on track, cause atm, PvP is dying and taking the Klings down with it.

First off, cloak is a crutch. It gives unorganized teams a chance, and makes organized teams scary. When the Klings go down to the fedball, cloak allows them to organize, w/o being picked off. As long as feds stay in formation, they are deadly. But if that formation breaks down, the feds have little chance of recovering unless they're very organized and form up elsewhere. Otherwise they're caught and hunted down, and can't recover.

That's the real issue with cloak. If the Klings are proactive enough to hit the feds again before they form up, the score becomes very lopsided. Many times it boils down to whether the feds can keep it together long enough so the main body of Klingons are busy with the formation for respawners to get back into the fight.

The fedball is a crutch. For the same reasons. But one begets the other, and cloak is the reason the fedball exists. You can't leave a defensive formation when you don't know where the attack is coming from. Science ships can help establish a perimeter, but they can't actively search. Because gettin too far away from your support will kill you. That makes science ships predictable, and easy to avoid. Reverse Shield polarity, which can only be used once for sci ships, can't last long enough for the fed cruisers to get to you if you stray too far.

Feds are tied down to the cruisers, cause the cruisers can't turn, or move anywhere fast. Klings are just learning this with the carriers. They're even worse, and find themselves outta the fight too often if it moves elsewhere. So now the Klingons are tied down to something. This would balance things out, but carriers aren't the backbone of the fleet. The cruisers are. And they're still cloaked. A lot of Klings are finding the carrier a novelty, and are going back to their cruisers/BoPs/Raptors, cause the advantage is too big to give up.

Right now, cloak detection sucks. I've heard stories of 10-20k detections, but I want to see this for myself. Until then, it's myth to me. So sci ships, make some tutorial. Make a video. Take a freaking screen shot. I refuse to believe that science ships gettin these kind of detection ranges aren't bragging it up on the forums somewhere with proof.

As a side note, another problem with PvP is the playing options. Three kinds of modes,one of which is never played and a capture map which has little leveling benefit? If you wanna advertise PvP leveling, make it worth it. Cause deathmatch is partly the reason things seem "unbalance." Klings can always dictate the fight in deathmatch. No reason to uncloak unless you're shooting something.
Well said that is right on hope it gets heard not slammed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-14-2010, 10:37 AM
I've spotted klingons out to about 10km and a bit beyond however that's only doable when sensor scan is up and with sensor array deflector and majority to all console slots devoted to it running max aux.

So you basically only spot the ones who fly too close while their plotting an attack or spot them just before the attack while dedicating your setup to that, at that range spotting them b4 they drop cloak can still help a lot to put the brakes on em but overrall imo it's not worth it just for that.

CPB is kind of weak for finding them, it's range is too small and the area to cover too large unless you for whatever reason have a very good idea of where they are, the shield drain can be nice tho and it can be useful vs battlecloak.

Running a sensor array setup even the passive detection is a bit lacking at times(spotting them at basically optimal cannon weapons range bout 4-6/7km), it's nice for chasing fleeing BoPs tho.

A buff to science vessel passive detection might be good or make the sensor perception buff and stealth debuff on sensor scan last 30secs like the damage resistance debuff.

The complaints about cloak are overdone tho, there is a point in that it gives you an advantage in that start outnumbered is not going to lead to a loss, and it makes regrouping a lot easier, not to mention being actually able to go on the offensive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-14-2010, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockeryangel
I've spotted klingons out to about 10km and a bit beyond however that's only doable when sensor scan is up and with sensor array deflector and majority to all console slots devoted to it running max aux.
Yes, about 8-10km with full aux and 3 +30 sensors consoles + sensor scan. Using sensor scan is retarded for such detection.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-14-2010, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otheym81 View Post
Anyone sick of hearing both sides of the argument?

First off, it's not overpowered. Does it have issues? Yes it does. PvP is a mess atm, and the sooner Feds and Klings realize the real issue, the faster PvP can get on track, cause atm, PvP is dying and taking the Klings down with it.

First off, cloak is a crutch. It gives unorganized teams a chance, and makes organized teams scary. When the Klings go down to the fedball, cloak allows them to organize, w/o being picked off. As long as feds stay in formation, they are deadly. But if that formation breaks down, the feds have little chance of recovering unless they're very organized and form up elsewhere. Otherwise they're caught and hunted down, and can't recover.

That's the real issue with cloak. If the Klings are proactive enough to hit the feds again before they form up, the score becomes very lopsided. Many times it boils down to whether the feds can keep it together long enough so the main body of Klingons are busy with the formation for respawners to get back into the fight.

The fedball is a crutch. For the same reasons. But one begets the other, and cloak is the reason the fedball exists. You can't leave a defensive formation when you don't know where the attack is coming from. Science ships can help establish a perimeter, but they can't actively search. Because gettin too far away from your support will kill you. That makes science ships predictable, and easy to avoid. Reverse Shield polarity, which can only be used once for sci ships, can't last long enough for the fed cruisers to get to you if you stray too far.

Feds are tied down to the cruisers, cause the cruisers can't turn, or move anywhere fast. Klings are just learning this with the carriers. They're even worse, and find themselves outta the fight too often if it moves elsewhere. So now the Klingons are tied down to something. This would balance things out, but carriers aren't the backbone of the fleet. The cruisers are. And they're still cloaked. A lot of Klings are finding the carrier a novelty, and are going back to their cruisers/BoPs/Raptors, cause the advantage is too big to give up.

Right now, cloak detection sucks. I've heard stories of 10-20k detections, but I want to see this for myself. Until then, it's myth to me. So sci ships, make some tutorial. Make a video. Take a freaking screen shot. I refuse to believe that science ships gettin these kind of detection ranges aren't bragging it up on the forums somewhere with proof.

As a side note, another problem with PvP is the playing options. Three kinds of modes,one of which is never played and a capture map which has little leveling benefit? If you wanna advertise PvP leveling, make it worth it. Cause deathmatch is partly the reason things seem "unbalance." Klings can always dictate the fight in deathmatch. No reason to uncloak unless you're shooting something.
So basically everything is fine...its not the cloak or the Fed ball thats the problem...they are both difficult tactics for the other to counter as the best/easiest response to the other's strengths.

The problem is how we are allowed to participate in PvP. The queued "play date" PvP basically encourages and equates to organized stalemates...with only the side willing to throw caution to the wind being beaten...and honestly, who wants to lose.

Remove the queue and instead open up PvP into a non-predicatable, non-heads up engagements and a lot of these problems go away. Give us something to fight for and you get more action.

See, the Feds are designed to defend with the ball...anything the KDF wants that the Feds have will require we activly engage them...that means come out of cloak in order to fight for what we want.

Klingons who possess an asset, thus have something to lose, will be forced to defend it out of cloak...Feds who want it will have to venture out(in their Ball no doubt) to acquire it.

KDF will have to try and attrite the Feds when they least expect it in order to maintain their combat strengths when engaging the Feds.

The Feds will need to try and move in mass to sweep out the KDF and intimidate use from engaging...while utilizing the Ball to defeat small un-organized strikes by the KDF.

Cloak is fine, Fed ball is fine...the current PvP scenerio/environmemt/content is whats failing us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-14-2010, 07:14 PM
I dont mind cloak. I do mind the battle cloak. If your gonna attack someone out of stealth as a "honorable" race, stick around for more then 2s after VM fails hah.

Battle cloak should be removed. if ROMULAN race when it came in had battlecloak, fine, it fits their race.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-14-2010, 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashie

Battle cloak should be removed. if ROMULAN race when it came in had battlecloak, fine, it fits their race.
20yrs of canon disagrees with you....its a combat tool, the Klingons will use it to thier advantage. Its not poison or killing an opponent in thier sleep.

Plus, what makes you think the Klingons consider the Fed dogs worthy of a warrior's death? As dogs you are to be slain like the animals you are, there is no regard for the curtosies granted a warrior.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:53 PM.