Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 345
# 61
07-18-2014, 12:21 PM
OK, what about having the option to have all choices blank to start with, and have the list already open by the side (so there are more options to choose from without having to scroll down too much)?

I might use that kind of option sometimes myself, when I'm in the mood of rp-lite starship captain pondering DOFF assignments.

But other than that lack of proactivity, I think the new system is a net improvement. And for me, I only enjoyed that proactivity for a while, after DOFFing first came out. Recently it's just been a click chore, and I'm happier that it's now quicker clicking.

I can see how it might annoy people who are either into that rp thing, or ar "pro" re. DOFFing and had a system down pat. But those two types are a minority, I'm sure, and I think if the devs just offered an option to start with "blank slates" for a mission, with the "suggested" list already open on the right, that would solve 90% of gripes I'm seeing.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 67
# 62
07-18-2014, 12:38 PM
Two groups that overreact the best are Trekkies and MMO fans. They are more than allowed and welcome to. It helps evolve the game. Also, if they didn't care they wouldn't *****. I usually skip the overly whiney parts...

So overreact away...It helps my gaming experience.
Joined: June 12, 1972

"The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play." - James T. Kirk
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 375
# 63
07-18-2014, 12:53 PM
I ran a pile of doff assignments last night, and participated in some of the crafting. I got my new uniform without the gamebreaking bugs others were experiencing, so I should count myself lucky.

My thoughts on the new UI - IF this is a step in the direction of hooking doffing/crafting up to Gateway, it's a good step. IF this is done soon. Gateway is a 99% abandoned set of promises for a long time now, and the UI changes really only make sense to me if we're heading in that direction. IF we are heading in that direction, it would be nice if it was long before Ex2, and an announcement of WHEN we can expect this feature comes along.

Visual space/rewards changes: Doesn't bother me one way or another. I can get used to it. The bars vs pie chart doesn't bug me either, I find them interchangeable.

Doff selection/filtering: This is horrible. An assignment should never suggest trading in a purple doff for "Cardassian Officer Exchange" or "Turn in Suspected Changeling". Especially after trumpeting that the new autoselection was supposed to make things perfectly easy all of the time. Changing a doff out needs massive work, as you can no longer filter on traits.

Doffs being "assigned" when they are already assigned elsewhere, or showing up on the list when already assigned elsewhere - this is just plain broken, in my opinion. Hopefully fixed soon.

Commodities and materials no longer show amount needed/totals. Just shows the amount needed. I found it more convenient to know how MUCH of what I had they were taking from me, that way I would know if I needed to make a vendor trip soon.

The crafting UI - well, OK, I'll see if it works out for me.

In short, the I'm "OK" with the UI, and the changes. But they are still in major need of improvement, and never should have been put into the production environment until that improvement had taken place. Now that it's in, how long before it gets fixed, if ever? If we don't complain, it'll be a long time indeed.

The Odyssey Uniform for free - I'm pretty thankful for that. I'm not happy a pile of other uniforms are broken to give it to us though (Sierra skirts etc).

What did we have to give up to pay for these "changes"?

1- Ripped out a bunch of content. Some people liked this content, some did not, but it was ripped out regardless. They ripped out Diplomatic Missions while they were at it, not even bothering to update the NPCs on ESD that talk about them.
2 - Ripped out a social zone that had bank, exchange, and mail services, along with 5 unique diplomatic missions, and vendors (one of which had the lowest prices on certain commodities). I agree with moving crafting OFF of Memory Alpha, but I do not agree with removing Memory Alpha. It had more to do than many of our other social zones (which I don't want pulled either).
3 - Also ripped out - the ability to peacefully farm crafting commodities, something which we used to have an hourly to promote. Now it's pay up or pew pew.

All in all, what was delivered onto Holodeck = a buggy, "alpha" UI (as they said themselves when it went to Tribble), a free uniform, and less content to raise the average quality. No FE, no new dailies, no new STFs, de nada. Seems like a net loss at the moment, and complaining MAY get some change. Are we overreacting? When this was all in the first week on Tribble, I would have said yes. Now that it was delivered to Holodeck in basically the same state, I'd say no - not at all. Personal attacks on other forum members and devs are always out of line, and the forums are often a font of negativity and hyperbole - but the issues being raised - I see them as legitimate.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 869
# 64
07-18-2014, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centaurianalpha View Post
This is a naive wish, not reality. You will never hear from most people who have simply given up & already left. And for every player who actually takes the time to give feedback, whether positive or negative, there are 20 more who just do not use the fora at all, and will not post there until they reach complete desperation to resolve their issues. That leaves those of us who are either eternal optimists, or too stubborn to give up on expecting a higher standard for our favorite things in life. IMO, even an overraction is better than no reaction...
there also seems to be a perception with forum monkeys that the "complainers" or "whiners" are a small subset of overly upset people.

Sorry but I have several major chat channels going and 99.9% of the time what people are "whining" about is the general in game consensus.

Take the DOFF UI. It was immediately despised. About the best comments were "im used to it now, it sucks but Im used to it"

And usually 99.9% of the time, the "whining" and "complaining" was the general consensus of most people posting to tribble. Usually instead of one constructive tribble feedback thread, on release you get a 100 similar posts.

Really IMO the forum monkeys are the outliers. If you went by the usual forum crowd you would have thought the #1 issue for most people in game was swimsuts
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,498
# 65
07-18-2014, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelchenchuan View Post
there also seems to be a perception with forum monkeys that the "complainers" or "whiners" are a small subset of overly upset people.

Sorry but I have several major chat channels going and 99.9% of the time what people are "whining" about is the general in game consensus.

Take the DOFF UI. It was immediately despised. About the best comments were "im used to it now, it sucks but Im used to it"

And usually 99.9% of the time, the "whining" and "complaining" was the general consensus of most people posting to tribble. Usually instead of one constructive tribble feedback thread, on release you get a 100 similar posts.

Really IMO the forum monkeys are the outliers. If you went by the usual forum crowd you would have thought the #1 issue for most people in game was swimsuts
Yeah, I dislike the new doff ui, but conceptually has potential, it just needs a few more features, and less wasted space.
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,026
# 66
07-18-2014, 02:05 PM
sure, some people get nasty, or are not constructive in their criticism, which helps no one..

but. that being said.. there is making money, and then there is this game.. where everything that is made is modeled at sucking every last penny out of the customer (you and me) butts.

in mmo's especially in free to play (or play depending ont he game) there is a fine line that has to be walked. the do's and donts.. primarily making content (such as ships, iniforms, lockboxes over making "good", replayable, and long lasting content will hurt you in the long run..

most of my friends who have stopped playing the game (and havnt touched it in a year or more) always react the same when I tell them about what the game has to offer now, or about a new ship..

they say things such as " oh great, a new ship which is awesome, to play all the same old boring content". or oh wow, they created new playable content, that while looks pretty and has a voice over, plays exactly the same as all their old content".

for most, its not about kicking and screaming that cryptic/pwe wants to make money and sell stuff, its that they don't even have a 50/50 production value to the game.

in my eyes, they should have 75 percent of the dev team working on the free content that keeps people interested, while having a separate team, that makes up 25 percent of the dev employees creating store items.. and they should be completely separate. no more creating an event purposely designed to prey on players lack of time, or lack of patience..

while trying to create content to support their need to make people "buy" dilithium/zen to get around time gates or massive costs, they are lessening the experience and the production value of said content. cryptics content is merely a fly here, press f, blow something up, press f, beam down, press f, maybe do a quick puzzle and beam up, to do it all again.

having rushed, less thought out, and grind content like this also creates another problem.. the mmo factor is always on the curb.. these missions are so mediocre, and so boring after playing them what twice, that groups do not play together, almost every group I pug with, or I join, there is a lack of communication, and these need to get it done as fast as you can without any incidednt (cause grinding relies on doing it quick and easy and multiple times)..

when I play other games, and I group up with people, we communicate, and we talk and laugh and figure out strategy and blah blah blah.. in sto, its a rare occurance that I see this.. and its not because of the player base (cause before f2p it wasn't like it is now) its because everyone is in a rush.. you cant slow down for 5minutes because you need to grind yourself to death.

cryptic/pwe/sto's new make every piece of content to support the grind, and support trying to make players pay their way through it is hurting the game over all. end of story..
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
# 67
07-18-2014, 05:36 PM
In regards to the OP, I think I have every right to provide constructive feedback. As I pay the subscription fee, purchased the LoR package, and have invested a far amount of funds in the C-Store products not to mention the time I have invested in this MMO, yeah I think I have that right. This game it not free, and quite frankly I view my payments as a investment in the product. So when the company does not respond to constructive feedback and content is removed for less than acceptable reasons and does not pass the logic test I tend to think I have that right. If I, as the customer continue to feel that my interests are not being considered, or even though concerns are occasion addressed then I will take my money and leave. Minding that word of advertising is very powerful.

I realize that things cannot be fixed overnight but it can be accomplished and addressed in the long run. I personally, what a MMO similar is size and scope of "EVE Online", with Dev and PA personnel as involved at "Earth and Beyond" before Westwood Studios was bought out by EA but with a Star Trek theme. The "Exploration" piece could have been saved and improved upon. This MMO could be created in such a matter that it is immersive, brings meaning to the items you and I have and use. PVP could be indeed be improve as well if that is your cup of tea. But I don't want PVP to be like it is "EVE Online" where you can't explore the galaxy because group of "players" want to blow you out of the sky very second they can.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,418
# 68
07-18-2014, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by puttenham View Post
in my eyes, they should have 75 percent of the dev team working on the free content that keeps people interested, while having a separate team, that makes up 25 percent of the dev employees creating store items.. and they should be completely separate. no more creating an event purposely designed to prey on players lack of time, or lack of patience.. .
And then, look what happens.. bugs and fails everywhere.. if you use 0% of the dev employees to keep the game clean of tribbles.. , STO up to date.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 238
# 69
07-18-2014, 07:26 PM
I wouldn't call Cryptic greedy, I'd call it incompetent (as an entity, not its individual components), left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and right barely understands what it is doing too

I'm going to skip the issues of the UI itself, and get to what is, to me, the crux of the matter;
use of resources, somebody spent all that time on replacing something that worked brilliantly with an inferior replacement that doesnt add any monumental new feature

yes, they might only do UI stuff, and thats fine, but there seems to be no rhyme or reason for what gets done, or any apparent sense of prioritisation or any real time-planning, they keep saying things like 'we didnt have enough time' or 'we had nobody free who does that'. tiny things get apparent huge allotments of time and resources, and big things get what appear to be smaller allotments

the Doof thing isnt a huge thing, just the newest thing and it is symptomatic of the unimaginative management that is driving this game onto the rocks
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for spoiler text use #1b1c1f
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,519
# 70
07-18-2014, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbzzn View Post
Agreed.

I have a difficult time understanding why the people expressing sheer vitriolic hatred towards Cryptic continue to hang around.
Well think of it in terms of status. Being angry at cryptic allows you to hold the opinion that your judgement is superior to that of the professional developers who control the mass entertainment product which both you and thousands of other people enjoy. It puts you in a position above cryptic and so in direct line to influencing that larger group IF you can exert some influence over the developers. Careful reasoning won't do the trick, as you must inevitably contend with the subjective nature of your opinion and your position as merely a palyer. So, you exaggerate. You make rediculous claims about doom and gloom to present a greater argument for why your point of view should have any sway over what the devs do to manage the larger population.

Basically its just the expression of human evolution. We are social creatures and over the generations we have been selected for according to our ability to operate within social groups. Some of that is constructive, some of that isn't (but provides greater personal advantages) and these people who seem to do nothing but whine are just preferring the second route (as so often happens in forums.)
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