Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Word to the wise and all powerful devs....

TEAMING is so bad in STO that it has strained lifelong friendships. A group of us have bought lifetime subscriptions and although we like the game playing solo, we want to play together. The current state of cooperative team play is so bad "playing together" is torture.

here's a dirty laundry list of bugs and inadequacies:


only 5 man teams? - enough said

Teams do not stay together- this one is huge. Our teams are constantly broken up into different instances when map moving. To make matters worse, the instance numbers are not the same from player to player so it's very difficult to reform the team. ENEMY CONTACT and FLEET mishs are not even possible with a team because the server auto assigns based on how full an instance is.Teams should be kept together in the same instance when entering these types. Better yet, create a new and closed instance for teams or fleets.

Level disparity is acutally punished- other MMORPG have systems of sidekicking or mentoring when players of different levels want to play together (even Champions has this).
-if a higher lvl "plays" down to help , the mish lvls up to him making it impossible or at least no fun for the lower lvl mish owner
-if a lower lvl "plays up" he cannot effectively participate in any combat and receives virtually nothing for the effort
PATROL, EXPLORATION, DEFENSE mish types cannot be shared- why? they can be played as a team if you wait for the mish owner to start and then follow him in

We really hope STO lives long and prospers, but if improvements to cooperative play are not addressed and soon, our fleet will most likely go back to other online games. Right now it's not fun, and if it's not fun, whats the point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-14-2010, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkeva
Word to the wise and all powerful devs....

TEAMING is so bad in STO that it has strained lifelong friendships. A group of us have bought lifetime subscriptions and although we like the game playing solo, we want to play together. The current state of cooperative team play is so bad "playing together" is torture.

here's a dirty laundry list of bugs and inadequacies:


only 5 man teams? - enough said

Teams do not stay together- this one is huge. Our teams are constantly broken up into different instances when map moving. To make matters worse, the instance numbers are not the same from player to player so it's very difficult to reform the team. ENEMY CONTACT and FLEET mishs are not even possible with a team because the server auto assigns based on how full an instance is.Teams should be kept together in the same instance when entering these types. Better yet, create a new and closed instance for teams or fleets.

Level disparity is acutally punished- other MMORPG have systems of sidekicking or mentoring when players of different levels want to play together (even Champions has this).
-if a higher lvl "plays" down to help , the mish lvls up to him making it impossible or at least no fun for the lower lvl mish owner
-if a lower lvl "plays up" he cannot effectively participate in any combat and receives virtually nothing for the effort
PATROL, EXPLORATION, DEFENSE mish types cannot be shared- why? they can be played as a team if you wait for the mish owner to start and then follow him in

We really hope STO lives long and prospers, but if improvements to cooperative play are not addressed and soon, our fleet will most likely go back to other online games. Right now it's not fun, and if it's not fun, whats the point.
You know I was thinking the same thing then I started to think about why it was so bad as a group MMO. Then it came to me Cryptic did not want this game to come out finished or with some of the more advanced features because this is their first crack at a first rate MMO. When I was thinking about it I saw somewhere where they had to pay a ton of money to get the rights when that other company went under so they are going to make sure it is successful but I think they are taking it kinda slow to make sure that when they put something in it is not going to kill the customer base. So I have a feeling we will get stuff trickled to us for like 3 months and then we will probably get regular updates. So raids and group stuff will be coming im sure but it is not on the top of the list or maybe it is but I think they are being extremely careful on what they put into the game and what not to put in. This is a very expensive game for them and very different type of MMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-14-2010, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronykle View Post
You know I was thinking the same thing then I started to think about why it was so bad as a group MMO. Then it came to me Cryptic did not want this game to come out finished or with some of the more advanced features because this is their first crack at a first rate MMO. When I was thinking about it I saw somewhere where they had to pay a ton of money to get the rights when that other company went under so they are going to make sure it is successful but I think they are taking it kinda slow to make sure that when they put something in it is not going to kill the customer base. So I have a feeling we will get stuff trickled to us for like 3 months and then we will probably get regular updates. So raids and group stuff will be coming im sure but it is not on the top of the list or maybe it is but I think they are being extremely careful on what they put into the game and what not to put in. This is a very expensive game for them and very different type of MMO.
You brought up some good points about a first rate MMO. Its true the prior MMO's that they have done are primarily for a niche crowd. It could or might have made it if they timed it with a major movie release. I think reality is that as long as it keeps its roots in a traditional MMO framework most people with right now expectations will not be interested in it. I think the mass target market is smart phones with Farmville or something similar that has a lot of social aspects with short attention span activities for daily events. Facebook could easily become the next powerhouse in that area.

So time will tell what Cryptic does with STO. Star Trek is a pretty major IP and is easily recognized across the planet. Hold up your hand make the V and most will know what that means. That or you just proposed to some tribe member and are now bound for life lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-14-2010, 10:05 AM
I agree, teaming is really badly done here. There is no reason the Exploratory missions should scale up their level, it's not like the rewards scale up with them. There is too much 'dynamic' content here that works only erratically, and sometimes in unpredictably, highly exploitable ways.

For instance, coming into an Enemy Signal Encounter in a sector I won't name because it's too easy to use this to grief others, I found that when I was in the encounter at its start, an entire enemy group spawned at my level-- which happened to be 21 levels higher than the people doing the mission normally because I was there to spend time with a friend who doesn't have as much time to play as I do. The result was pretty pathetic for the others involved in the fight. It doesn't seem to happen in any other deepspace encounters, which raises big questions about the consistancy of programming in the game.

Worse, when we could get teaming to work AT ALL in Exploratory missions it seemed to scale to as many team members as we had, but all at the level of the highest player. So whenever there was a level gap, the person at the bottom was at best largely useless, and at worst unprotectable. It was frustrating beyond belief. Right now I consider all exploratory missions to be solo content, which is ridiculous considering they're the missions most likely to offer extra RP potential with a wider variety of environments, many of which can be explored in a non-combat context. Considering the skill point gaps left by there being so few mainstream missions which are teamable, this is a problem for me.

And I'd like to be able to 'opt out' of the scoring in Fleet Actions when I'm only there to help someone complete them and I'm out of the level range that's supposed to compete. Right now, I just trade the item to whomever is second on the score list. But I'd like to just not be included in the scoring at all if I'm not there to compete. It's a better solution than not letting me help at all, any game that splits up people who want to spend time together in order to force them to team with others is not a game I'm going to subscribe to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-14-2010, 10:08 AM
I found that teaming becomes irrelevant in PVE simply because the difficulty does not scale enough, or the player has no control over how difficult they really want the engagement to be.

PVP, on the other hand, is all about the teamwork. I have yet to find a multiplayer game that so totally relies on and encourages teamwork.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-14-2010, 10:12 AM
I do believe the levelling up thing is meant to prevent high levels from powerlevelling low levels
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-14-2010, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great_Milenko
I do believe the levelling up thing is meant to prevent high levels from powerlevelling low levels
i really don't understand why newer games try to prevent this. one of the most social and healthy things you can do is go back and help lower level players catch up. helps get friends into a game which is new to them and helps increase subs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-14-2010, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great_Milenko
I do believe the levelling up thing is meant to prevent high levels from powerlevelling low levels
This is a level of interference I don't appreciate. If they gave us more character slots so that we could keep characters solely to play with the people we care about who have to play at different schedules that would be one thing, but even then, what business is it of anyone else's if we want to take care of one another and cooperate to make gameplay easier for people who have less time? Why should I have to maintain several characters to play with people who are on different levelling curves just so some friendless people don't get jealous?

Yes. People abuse the ability to help one another, that's not going to change. You can't code a system people won't abuse. Putting systems in place that make teaming frustrating and make people unable to help one another doesn't solve that, it just punishes people who are genuinely trying to help one another. Someone who wants to 'powerlevel' will just keep the unprotectable teammate well out of harm's way and blow through the scaled-up difficulty by keeping the team top-heavy. It won't stop 'bought' characters, all it does is make the teaming in this game look amateurishly designed, poorly implemented, and ineffective.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-14-2010, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyklingon
i really don't understand why newer games try to prevent this. one of the most social and healthy things you can do is go back and help lower level players catch up. helps get friends into a game which is new to them and helps increase subs.
I think its because its seen as exploiting to the people that created the game. THEY see it as though you are bypassing all the content they created that they expect you to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iiillume
This is a level of interference I don't appreciate. If they gave us more character slots so that we could keep characters solely to play with the people we care about who have to play at different schedules that would be one thing, but even then, what business is it of anyone else's if we want to take care of one another and cooperate to make gameplay easier for people who have less time? Why should I have to maintain several characters to play with people who are on different levelling curves just so some friendless people don't get jealous?

Yes. People abuse the ability to help one another, that's not going to change. You can't code a system people won't abuse. Putting systems in place that make teaming frustrating and make people unable to help one another doesn't solve that, it just punishes people who are genuinely trying to help one another. Someone who wants to 'powerlevel' will just keep the unprotectable teammate well out of harm's way and blow through the scaled-up difficulty by keeping the team top-heavy. It won't stop 'bought' characters, all it does is make the teaming in this game look amateurishly designed, poorly implemented, and ineffective.
Yes but if you go te opposite direction and let anyone get away with anytghing they essentially want to get away with you end up with Star Trek EVE an noone (except for a few) wants that either
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-14-2010, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyklingon
i really don't understand why newer games try to prevent this. one of the most social and healthy things you can do is go back and help lower level players catch up. helps get friends into a game which is new to them and helps increase subs.
Absolutely agree with this, on all levels.

It also fosters a culture of more patient people at top level, people who like being able to go back and help others out are less likely to pitch hissy fits about how little end-game content Cryptic provides.
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