Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
02-15-2010, 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapmetal
False. IGN has a video preview of the game.

http://video.ign.com/dor/articles/10...dp_012510.html
Gameplay looks fine to me... I'm more interested in BioWare's approach to story-driven gameplay and how it will apply to the Star Wars universe. As it is shaping up now, it looks to present its players with an immersive Star Wars experience... Something that Star Wars Galaxies should have been, but wasn't, and for some reason, SOE never even bothered to try delivering...

Seriously, How can anyone take an IP that is so popular world-wide like Star Wars and screw it up? I'll tell you... You slap the name of said IP on the box to pander to the masses whou you know will buy it for that very reason, because they are interested in it. Then, rather than designing the game in a way that accurately reflects the loong-established nature of said IP, you completely ignore the guidelines and create something that not only bears no resemblance to the IP beyond what is on the surface, But you refuse to listen when people warn you of what is going to happen. And when it does happen, you make no effort to rectify the situation.

That is what SOE did to SWG from the beginning... And it is what Cryptic is doing to STO as I predicted.

STO, just like SWG, suffers more from problems rising from incorrect aesthetic detail than it does from systemic failure. Bugs can be fixed, but unless the aesthetics are addressed, STO will never fully appeal to the audience it needs most: The true Star Trek fan. Most of the people who declare their intent to leave cite the fact that STO does not reflect Star Trek. Which is exactly What I predicted.

As a game goes, STO is fun. And there IS a great deal of potential. Now that the core game is out there for the "I don't want to think, I just want to be entertained" crowd, there is no excuse for them not to turn their attention to the aesthetics of the game and begin making it into a game for fans of the IP as well... Something SOE never did with SWG, but Bio Ware is doing for TOR.

Once the bugs are dealt with, I hope to see this become a Star Trek game in truth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
02-15-2010, 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
Gameplay looks fine to me... I'm more interested in BioWare's approach to story-driven gameplay and how it will apply to the Star Wars universe. As it is shaping up now, it looks to present its players with an immersive Star Wars experience... Something that Star Wars Galaxies should have been, but wasn't, and for some reason, SOE never even bothered to try delivering...

Seriously, How can anyone take an IP that is so popular world-wide like Star Wars and screw it up? I'll tell you... You slap the name of said IP on the box to pander to the masses whou you know will buy it for that very reason, because they are interested in it. Then, rather than designing the game in a way that accurately reflects the loong-established nature of said IP, you completely ignore the guidelines and create something that not only bears no resemblance to the IP beyond what is on the surface, But you refuse to listen when people warn you of what is going to happen. And when it does happen, you make no effort to rectify the situation.

That is what SOE did to SWG from the beginning... And it is what Cryptic is doing to STO as I predicted.

STO, just like SWG, suffers more from problems rising from incorrect aesthetic detail than it does from systemic failure. Bugs can be fixed, but unless the aesthetics are addressed, STO will never fully appeal to the audience it needs most: The true Star Trek fan. Most of the people who declare their intent to leave cite the fact that STO does not reflect Star Trek. Which is exactly What I predicted.

As a game goes, STO is fun. And there IS a great deal of potential. Now that the core game is out there for the "I don't want to think, I just want to be entertained" crowd, there is no excuse for them not to turn their attention to the aesthetics of the game and begin making it into a game for fans of the IP as well... Something SOE never did with SWG, but Bio Ware is doing for TOR.

Once the bugs are dealt with, I hope to see this become a Star Trek game in truth.
i beg to differ ... on the SOE part at least...SWG was good in the beginning when you consider they designed it as a sandbox set in the star wars universe. the biggest strongpoint that SWG had going for it was that it was driven by the social aspect of the game not some diffuse end game content like raiding(im talking pre-NGE here, havent touched it after that).
the greatest kick i ever got out of an MMO was going player-jedi hunting on my MBH ... that felt like star wars.
SWG just had something very special about it in the way that the players actually made the game and the devs only providing a sandbox to play in.

STO doesnt have that ... in fact, STO doesnt have much of anything when you think about it. hell, LOTRO for example has more non-combat quests then STO has quests as a whole.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
02-15-2010, 05:43 AM
Im enjoying the game and warhammer servers were crap and still are when you went to a fort they capped the amount of players allowed in it so many times to try and combat the server instability its unreal now from what i read they dont even have forts anymore because of the lag was more trouble then they were worth.

Good luck on ya next game im staying put for now as i dont have many server issues no rubberbanding nor did i on champs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
02-15-2010, 05:58 AM
When Bioware's servers crash(and they will) I will be laughing my @zz off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
02-15-2010, 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkOmens View Post
I played the tabletop Champions back in 82 (killing powers, color your own toon sheets and all), and a few years from then so no, I am not speaking of a game that is much older than GW's works, but Champs never had 60+ books, hundreds of novels, thousands of fans at conventions, or anything even close to that hope.

And older than the RP setting? Sorry, what is that meant to be telling us? If you mean the oldest RPG, then you are WAY off base. If you ref to it as the older of the two concepts and the only one being a true RPG, then you sre only slightly close to the truth as the first printing of GW WH40k was an odd mix of tabletop rules and RPG setting. (i.e. Rogue Trader)



Gee Selj, real constructive of ya. :p
Actually, Champions has had close to 100 books...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
02-15-2010, 06:09 AM
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
02-15-2010, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klystron View Post
When Bioware's servers crash(and they will) I will be laughing my @zz off.
i had no game crashing till STO because of people entering the server...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
02-15-2010, 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocharni View Post
i beg to differ ... on the SOE part at least...SWG was good in the beginning when you consider they designed it as a sandbox set in the star wars universe. the biggest strongpoint that SWG had going for it was that it was driven by the social aspect of the game not some diffuse end game content like raiding(im talking pre-NGE here, havent touched it after that).
the greatest kick i ever got out of an MMO was going player-jedi hunting on my MBH ... that felt like star wars.
SWG just had something very special about it in the way that the players actually made the game and the devs only providing a sandbox to play in.

STO doesnt have that ... in fact, STO doesnt have much of anything when you think about it. hell, LOTRO for example has more non-combat quests then STO has quests as a whole.
I have never had a bigger rush in any MMO than when playing Jedi with permadeath. Die 3 times within 3 weeks and the Jedi character was gone forever. Well you could run around like a blue glowie. Invisible to anyone else. But ofcause 9 days after I unlocked Jedi they removed Permadeath with skillbox loss.

Remember everytime during PD system I was in trouble my heart would race at 200 BPM pounding into my ribs while I was chanting "Oh god, please don't let me die, please don't let me die". And I'm not even religious.

Problem with SWG launch was they scrapped the original code after years of work. And then rebuilt it over 18 months, so at launch the game barely had any content at all. And the code was also to complex to manage. So we did not get much new content the first 6 months coz all efforts was put into fixing bugs. But when they fixed one thing they broke another in the progress.

And they had serious problems balancing classes, thats why there was alway a flavour of the month 90% were using. next rebalance and that template was crap and another was the new Fotm.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
02-15-2010, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocharni View Post
i beg to differ ... on the SOE part at least...SWG was good in the beginning when you consider they designed it as a sandbox set in the star wars universe. the biggest strongpoint that SWG had going for it was that it was driven by the social aspect of the game not some diffuse end game content like raiding(im talking pre-NGE here, havent touched it after that).
the greatest kick i ever got out of an MMO was going player-jedi hunting on my MBH ... that felt like star wars.
SWG just had something very special about it in the way that the players actually made the game and the devs only providing a sandbox to play in.
From a systemic standpoint, SWG was near-perfect in its initial design... But many people felt that it lacked compelling Star Wars content. While some were content to "create their own content" the overwhelming majority felt that content development was SOE's responsibility. And for a premium title charging a monthly fee to play, that standpoint carried a lot of weight among the community. You see, Raph Koster (SWG's original lead designer) is a genius in terms of designing community-building mechanics for his games. But when you slap the name Star Wars on a lable, and the core content of the game does not go beyond the surface to represent Star Wars, then those who stand to have the greatest interest will lose interest. And who stands to have the greatest interest in a Star Wars game? Star Wars fans...

Quote:
STO doesnt have that ... in fact, STO doesnt have much of anything when you think about it.
True... But cryptic CAN remedy that. IF they want to. STO is very modular in design. And with modular design comes the capacity to plug in almost anything. The combat systems work. The questing systems work. Now it is time to plug in content that uses those systems but presents them in a compelling, true-to-Star-Trek way. Because the truth is, the audience that stands to have the greatest interest in an MMO with the Trek name is the Star Trek fans. You know... the ones who would tune in almost religiously every night a new episode of whatever the currently running Trek series was at the time was going to air? The ones who go out and buy all the memorabelia? The ones who go multiple times to every Trek movie, no matter how badly received by even their peers? Yeah... those people. The ones who are talking about jumping ship because STO isn't what they are looking for because as far as they are concerned, what it depicts ISN'T Trek...

Quote:
hell, LOTRO for example has more non-combat quests then STO has quests as a whole.
That is correct. And why? Because for the most part, Turbine did what they could to blend a fun, action-oriented MMO with elements that were as true to Tolkien's Middle-earth as they could get. Yes, creative license is taken, but the spirit behind that game is true to the IP upon which it is based. It may not be as big as WoW (nothing is), but in my time of playing over there, I have come to know many new players who abandoned WoW for it, and who found it to be a much more rich experience because of its attention to details.

So contrary to what focus groups and marketing trends may say, Details DO matter...

And the Star Trek fan community, even divided on many points as it is, is a close-knit community. You get one satisfied Trek fan who shares his experience with his peers, you're likely to get at least ten people to try it out. On the other hand, if you get one DIS-satisfied Trek fan who shares his contempt, you're likely to guarantee FIFTY people who will never bother to look at it, let alone give it a fair chance.

Non-trek fans don't matter. Because when the next big MMO comes out, most of them will abandon STO anyway.

Cryptic can turn STO into something awesome, IF they want to. But they are going to have to abandon the notion that non-star trek fans are the better audience to market to. Because whether they like it or not, the moment they took on the Trek license, they also took on a ready-made fan community that, for quite a while now, has been longing for a game that actually take Star Trek seriously. I'd rather the non-trekkies who won't stay past the launch of a new shiny MMO be second-guessed and marginalized than the Trekkies who will stay for the long haul if the game proves to deliver what they have been hoping for for years.

When dealing with MMOs based on a pre-existing IP, the numbers used to determine the success of other titles lie. Otherwise, every MMO that has attempted to duplicate WoW's formula would be just as successful as WoW itself. But they haven't been.

SOE figured that the Star Wars name was neough to print money. Cryptic seems to feel that the Star Trek name is enough to print money. Well, they both are right. It is enough to print money, but only if its true to the respective IP so that the massive number of people who buy into that IP will buy into the games as well.

SOE won't make SWG into a true Star Wars game, which is why all they can do is tread water. And when STO's novelty wears off (or the players' free first 30 days end), then it will be reduced to treading water as well... unless Cryptic takes it to heart that they must pander to those who stand to have the greatest interest. The Star Trek fans...

If you are a basketball fan and you buy tickets to your favorite team's season opener, how would you feel if the managers decided hold a hockey match instead, even though they will have been advertising the season opener of basketball for your preferred team... Well that is what putting the Star Trek name on a game that doesn't resemble Star Trek is like to Star Trek fans.

The sad thing is that the Star Trek TV shows and Star Wars movies make no apologies for being what they are to those who don't like the respective IPs, and yet the MMOs based upon them that have launched so far seem to not only apologize to non-fans, but go out of their way to say "we promise to avoid being like what we know you hate, so come on in... We'd love to have you. And if the fans whine? Well.. we'll just marginalize them to the point where they'll want to leave."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
02-15-2010, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstiff
This is what Ive been hearing for a while. People are expecting the bioware version of star wars galaxies, what they'll get is phantasy star online with a hint of star wars. Mainly instanced with lobby type areas similar to guild wars is what Ive heard.
Is that a bad thing? I'm looking forward to running around with the folks I ussually play with on-line. If I never see the rest of you except in "town" (where I might actually want to interact with you), what's the problem? My immersion is not improved by constantly running into people who have also just stolen the widget of whatsis, and I certainly derive no thrill from getting piled on by other people's respawns in an area that looked clear. I like performing or receiving the occasional out-of-group rescue as much as (or more than) the next guy, but my gaming enjoyment certainly doesn't hinge on it.

Bioware, true to form, seem to be offering storylines as a core value. Massive RANDOM interaction is not usually a big element of that, so if game design choices are made to support design goals, I see practiced developer at work. I have more than enough regular gaming buddies to play bit-parts in my stories when I'mthe main hero and whom I can go out with and not be the central star with when they want the limelight.

I'm modestly hopeful about SW:TOR, but its a long way off for my gaming dollar. I don't mind passing the time here for a while.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:35 PM.