Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-15-2010, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightspeedy2k
There's a real simple cure. Stop reading the whiney posts. Making a thread about whining about the whiners is not productive.
Problem is, most days the forums are full of people *****ing - I happen to like the game - sure it's got its faults but I'm happy to wait for improvements. If the forums were full of constructive threads suggesting positive changes then I'd contribute to them (and I do) - right now though it's just and endless tirade of quitters, Admirals demanding endgame content, people predicting the demise of STO etc. etc.

Anyway - I'm grouchy today - that's probably not helping...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-15-2010, 07:05 AM
Quote:
b) MMO Veterans who have allowed their years of playing one particular game spoil them, and cause them to forget the buggy, empty, boring opening periods... which weren't quite as boring to them back then, simply because it was their first time going through it. Now these folks expect every game to release at the level of an older, more developed game which they see through rose-colored glasses.
Yeah ... I am probably from this camp I guess. I don't want to be however.

I played from when EQ was first released - through all the expansions. Played SWG at release. Played ALOT of games at release, but trust me, I have never forgotten the 'buggy, empty, boring opening periods' because every new release of an MMO I pick up - it's ingrained into me that this is what I am expected to endure. It just depends on how broken the game is at launch that will determine how long it's going to keep me interested.

However, I really would have thought that by now software companies, and probably more importantly their distributors, would have realised that to succeed in creating a new MMO you need to minimise the 'buggy, empty, boring opening periods'. Fair do's, this game was on a tight schedule from day one and constantly pushed in it's developement time. It's very apparent to players of MMO's old and new, that there are quite a few bits lacking and alot that simply does not make sense.

If only one of the companies involved in this release had the guts to say - 'No. we will not release the game until we are satisfied that we have content, for the majority, that will last until we are ready to push out the next expansion. Let the players wait an extra few months .. it will be more than worth it !' instead of the standard - 'Ship it out, recoup some investment, see if it sinks or swims - release the rest of the stuff as an expansion'.

I am more from camp E I think. - " MMO Veterans who have played various games from release, causing them to fear the buggy, empty, boring opening periods... which, let's face it, we will always sit through as we really do expect it, simply because it we are forced to. Now these folks would expect every game to release at the level of an older, more developed game because isnt about time that actually happened ?.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-15-2010, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xMentalxLintx
a) MMO Veterans from years back, who've been through the betas and the bugs and the updates and the "updates," and who understand that MMOs are vastly different from other types of games in that they aren't released as complete, self-contained gaming experiences. They understand that MMO companies all make the choice of exactly WHAT gets left out at release, and no one is 100% happy.
I don't fit so comfortable into your categorization. Mine would be...

e.) MMO and MUD Veterans who've been through many betas and understand the MMO development cycle. They may or may not complain within each MMO community, but they've learned to enjoy what comes down the pipes. But with all of that experience behind them, their MMO expectations grow every year. When they are not met, they voice their concerns. When they are exceeded, they rejoice just as loud as the next fanboy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-15-2010, 07:16 AM
What a biased, pathetic thread. You, OP, and the rest of you that think like him/her are the reason our hobby has become the land of buggy, unfinished crap that MMOs are today. Since you accept a low-quality product you GET a low-quality product. Until you pull your collective heads out of your backsides and start voting with your wallet we will never improve the stat of MMOs.

The mental accrobatics you people will go to in order to justify the junk MMOs are today is astounding.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-15-2010, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithomed
What a biased, pathetic thread. You, OP, and the rest of you that think like him/her are the reason our hobby has become the land of buggy, unfinished crap that MMOs are today. Since you accept a low-quality product you GET a low-quality product. Until you pull your collective heads out of your backsides and start voting with your wallet we will never improve the stat of MMOs.

The mental accrobatics you people will go to in order to justify the junk MMOs are today is astounding.
Quoted for truth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-15-2010, 07:25 AM
every mmo had its problems and some never ever recovered. But as mmo goes sto isnt starting of to bad wow had its issues to start with and guild wars mmmmmmmmm played from start and all it ended up was gearing itself to pvp.

How many real issues have you faced in this game and it seems they try to patch it up pretty quickly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-15-2010, 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithomed
What a biased, pathetic thread. You, OP, and the rest of you that think like him/her are the reason our hobby has become the land of buggy, unfinished crap that MMOs are today. Since you accept a low-quality product you GET a low-quality product. Until you pull your collective heads out of your backsides and start voting with your wallet we will never improve the stat of MMOs.

The mental accrobatics you people will go to in order to justify the junk MMOs are today is astounding.
That depends on what your definition of quality is.

Mine personally is whether I enjoy the game I'm playing or not and right now I'm enjoying STO - if that changes I'll move on to something else, no big deal.

Other games I've moved on from:

SWG (voted with my wallet 'cause the NGE sucked)
MxO (voted with my wallet 'cause SOE fired the Live Events team and introduced loads of bugs that weren't in there at launch)
EQ2 (voted with my wallet 'cause I got bored real quickly with it)
GW (stopped playing 'cause I found it dull)
CO (voted with my wallet and cancelled my sub 'cause I didn't like it)

There probably others that I've forgotten but just because I like STO doesn't mean I'm a blinkered fanboy that'll take whatever Cryptic dish out - if the game gets worse then I'll find something else to play, right now it's way too early to tell what STO will eventually end up being.

If you feel this strongly about the current state of STO then I'd suggest you're playing the wrong game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-15-2010, 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy
Most MMOs have at least 3-4 years of actual development. Word is that STO had two.
.
That is irrelevant, It could have had 30 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy
Your points are based on hypothetical situations which may or may not happen. The direction of the game never conforms to everyone's ideals, as such you have to appeal to the majority.
.
You don't have to appeal to the majority. That is false. You don't miss the pitch, you have to do things your own way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy

And the bug thing is just speculation.
.
It is a promise. Too many hardware/software combo's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy
They wouldn't be in the same boat. Chances are, they wouldn't have picked up the game to develop in the first place. And if they did, they would have had another two years to flesh it out futher. To close the gaps in the content, for example, rework the skill trees, allow the game to be more stable, actually put in some decent endgame content - heck maybe even a proper Klingon faction?
.
All that is coming.
There is enough content for a month.
Cryptic was given this IP because it COULD have it out in a few years. Cryptic has this engine that can create an mmo faster than other companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy
Congratulations on you being a programmer. Not that I'm sure it's relevant. A programmer only represents one aspect of game development, so your apparent knowledge of methodology is irrelevant.
I am telling you man, you will never ever understand this. THere is no point on discussing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy
Being a programmer yourself, would you consider it acceptable to release an 'app' (I'm assuming iPhone) that has gaping holes in it? Why would you pay for that application when you can get an application elsewhere for the same price or cheaper which does everything and more? You see what I'm getting at here?
I work for the tax revenue agency of Canada. If I did, I would get a slap on the wrist. We can't make BIG applications because we know that BIG applications cause problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy

And in the future, I would avoid the casual comments, "it's cool man" - it just makes you look like an arrogant, self-important jerk.
And pointing it out makes you what, exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by YunoLegacy
If you can't get what I've just typed, then there's little hope for you. I won't be wasting any more of my time trying to explain simple concepts to you.
There isn't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-15-2010, 07:41 AM
So what you're saying is that basically people in category D aren't capable of making their own judgement and rely on others to do it. These people also aren't capable of using the internet, google or anything else.

Heaven forbid that a new player would play an MMO, understand that MMO launches are often beset with teething problems, yet bin the game because the gameplay is shallow, repetitive and lacking in any form of menaingful entertainment. Good Lord surely there isnt someone out there who's receptive to server downtime, various bugs but just thinks the game's worthy of nothing more than the bargain bin.

New players don't need grizzled old MMO vets spouting off that this game is all of the criticism's above. Bar being blind it's blatantly obvious when you actually play it for more than ten minutes. People can sit there and fabricate this odd crusade against people with a negative opinion until the cows come home, however the test is that if a product is that good then the word soon gets around despite the guarenteed negative press and comments. You can rattle your sabre as much as you like but if the product is rotten at its core then no amount of fanboy support for new players will disguise the fact.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-15-2010, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithomed
What a biased, pathetic thread. You, OP, and the rest of you that think like him/her are the reason our hobby has become the land of buggy, unfinished crap that MMOs are today. Since you accept a low-quality product you GET a low-quality product. Until you pull your collective heads out of your backsides and start voting with your wallet we will never improve the stat of MMOs.

The mental accrobatics you people will go to in order to justify the junk MMOs are today is astounding.
Well, thats actually what i thought when i read this thread.

PLUS. It is so damn arrogant to set himself higher than all the other, thinking to be better than those "normal guys" or those who actually see that this game is just repetitive and shallow. The point that MMOs evolve is no excuse for releasing an unfinished product. You can make roper content and evolve it afterwards.

PLUS the excuse that other MMOs are shallow is no excuse too. Just because they wrote books over hundred years with their hands doesnt mean that this is the best way to do it.

PLUS i pay every month for an complete and finished expnsion besides havin paid as much money as for an complete and finished full game. Therefore i could expect some quality.

I dont want to wait a year until a game is interesting and always repeating the mantra i hear in this forum "It will all be good, MMOs have to be shallow."

I enjoy parts of the game so far. But i think it wont keep me on the computer for more than two month. And in this timeframe no major changes are planned.
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