Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
02-15-2010, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
Two years building on a framework that took 5 years to make. That's 7 years worth of development put into the game. This practice of establishing reusable frameworks is smart programming and will eventually become the industry norm- it's well on its way even outside of Cryptic.
The CO engine had to be drastically changed/adapted when used with STO. I really doubt it would have taken 5 years had STO started with an STO-only engine. But that's all speculation. For STO, it was merely 2 years of development as Perpetual did very little with it. Cryptic didn't use any code from them.

So, I would not say 7 years at all. STO, when you count in some time for the CO engine, would more or less be on par with other MMO development of 4 years.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
02-15-2010, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post
The CO engine had to be drastically changed/adapted when used with STO. I really doubt it would have taken 5 years had STO started with an STO-only engine. But that's all speculation. For STO, it was merely 2 years of development as Perpetual did very little with it. Cryptic didn't use any code from them.

So, I would not say 7 years at all. STO, when you count in some time for the CO engine, would more or less be on par with other MMO development of 4 years.
first it's called the Cryptic Engine. it is designed from the ground up to run MMOs,

second it took 5 years to build the engine, then it was changed and applied to CO, and then changed and added to STO.

now 5+2=7. 5 yeas on the engine, the frame work, and 2 years on the art , mission, and everything else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
02-15-2010, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post
The CO engine had to be drastically changed/adapted when used with STO. I really doubt it would have taken 5 years had STO started with an STO-only engine. But that's all speculation. For STO, it was merely 2 years of development as Perpetual did very little with it. Cryptic didn't use any code from them.

So, I would not say 7 years at all. STO, when you count in some time for the CO engine, would more or less be on par with other MMO development of 4 years.
"Some time for the CO engine"?
Five years of development went into that engine, and it wasn't designed just for CO. It was designed to be a basis for any MMO and would contain code to support standard MMO conventions and server architecture. BigWorlds does the same thing.

If you want to exclude the time it took to build the engine then that's fine, but then the claim that "STO only had two years of development" is misleading and it isn't a bad thing. If you exclude the time spent building base engines then, in the coming years, ~2 years will be the industry norm. Cryptic's just ahead of the curve.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
02-15-2010, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
"Some time for the CO engine"?
Five years of development went into that engine, and it wasn't designed just for CO. It was designed to be a basis for any MMO and would contain code to support standard MMO conventions and server architecture. BigWorlds does the same thing.

If you want to exclude the time it took to build the engine then that's fine, but then the claim that "STO only had two years of development" is misleading and it isn't a bad thing. If you exclude the time spent building base engines then, in the coming years, ~2 years will be the industry norm. Cryptic's just ahead of the curve.
Oh I'm not arguing anything about the development time being too long or too short (even though I'd say the release was rushed). That was another poster. I'm just saying 7 years development with adding the engine 5 years isn't doing the total time for STO development justice. It's going to be less when isolated down to what STO would have been if it had its own, dedicated engine.

On another thread, Coderanger mentions some things regarding STO's object-oriented database and there's an interesting Cryptic presentation on it: http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Dan/S...mful-for-MMOs/. They certainly put plenty of time and effort into trying to refine the database structure for STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
02-15-2010, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStreaker
There is only one negative group here..
Thanks for the side-splitting belly-laugh.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
02-15-2010, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staran View Post
At least Cryptic isn't dropping me into the middle of the ocean to drown to death and not able to retrive my corpse ala WOW
LMAO. I remember that.

It is true especially with a lot of the WoW people. Most do not realize just how bad WoW was in the first, I would say 3 to 6 months, but hey it worked out and look at it now. STO could do the same and even other MMO's if and only if:

1. People stop thing of a MMO that is newly released is going to be spit and polished like WoW and EVE is now.

2. The "fan base", if you will, is there to keep these going with valid and constructive input.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
02-15-2010, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parrdacc View Post
LMAO. I remember that.

It is true especially with a lot of the WoW people. Most do not realize just how bad WoW was in the first, I would say 3 to 6 months, but hey it worked out and look at it now. STO could do the same and even other MMO's if and only if:

1. People stop thing of a MMO that is newly released is going to be spit and polished like WoW and EVE is now.

2. The "fan base", if you will, is there to keep these going with valid and constructive input.
Personally I think that some of these people who claim to have been in WoW during CB/OB/launch are not telling the truth. Hating on things when you're anonymous is easy (and it makes you "cool" in the eyes of other kids). So when a person has crossed into haterville, what's a little lie about their involvement in WoW going to hurt? I was there for all 3 of those phases and what they claim it was like does not match my recollection AT ALL. I couldn't even play for days on end after launch. The game had patch days where they couldn't even get the game to work after bringing it down for maintenance, and in some cases it stayed down well into the next day. There was that annoying loot animation bug, the drowning thing, broken quests, no PvP battle grounds... and on and on. Did I mention LAG? It's my opinion that those who claim otherwise are just lying, anonymous kids who use exaggerated hatred to gain the attention they are missing in their real lives. Drama queens.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
02-15-2010, 02:18 PM
I was not on WoW when it was first launched, but I had friends who were. They were mostly unable to play the game on Monday thru Wednesday because the servers and game were so buggy and laggy the day before patch, patch day and the day after patches. They also remember the drowning bug and the loot bug quite well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
02-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heliotrope View Post
Personally I think that some of these people who claim to have been in WoW during CB/OB/launch are not telling the truth. Hating on things when you're anonymous is easy (and it makes you "cool" in the eyes of other kids). So when a person has crossed into haterville, what's a little lie about their involvement in WoW going to hurt? I was there for all 3 of those phases and what they claim it was like does not match my recollection AT ALL. I couldn't even play for days on end after launch. The game had patch days where they couldn't even get the game to work after bringing it down for maintenance, and in some cases it stayed down well into the next day. There was that annoying loot animation bug, the drowning thing, broken quests, no PvP battle grounds... and on and on. Did I mention LAG? It's my opinion that those who claim otherwise are just lying, anonymous kids who use exaggerated hatred to gain the attention they are missing in their real lives. Drama queens.
The drowning thing wasn't at the beginning, either. It was the following spring when they decided to split the realm into two different servers.
It was the worst bug in all mmo's IMHO, ever and it lasted almost a year.

Captain placeholder to the rescue!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
02-15-2010, 02:57 PM
To the OP, nice post.

But reading some of the responses, some of these people are just a lost cause. They are so consumed with their need to assign some hateful or ulterior motive to Cryptic, seem completely oblivious to the trials and tribulations that have been involved in trying to develop this game over the years, and basically just want to complain and thump their chests.

I'm an A-type player from a long, long time ago. Sure, when I log in and the server is down, I get a twinge of disappointment, but it is just a game, and my life is more than just playing Star Trek Online, so I go do something else for a while, or actually get some sleep.

Sure, with another 4 years and 50 million dollars Cryptic could have completely polished and perfected the game. Except I didn't want to wait 4 years to play it.

Good luck to the B & C crowd...
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