Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 11
08-04-2014, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet View Post
I appreciate this 'blog'.
Blog, yes, that's the term. I'm showing my age when I can't remember something as simple as that.

I believe the entire crafting system is actually good for what it does. Yet, I think the xp values are either too great or too little.

The total XP needed per level as astronomically high past ... level 5? With the exception of the 20 hour projects, every other project has extremely low values, even given the short time needed at various levels. 1 xp point for a few seconds wait (iirc) is simply silly to expect anyone to use when the xp needed to advance is in the thousands. Especially at higher levels.

The system is definitely designed to keep the player involved, but not enough to make it actual. SO, players are seeing that the best way to level up is through the 20-hour project. Therefore, it is likened to a "grind".

Ultimately, it IS boring ... but so is crafting in every MMO I've played (not that I have played them all. Crafting is an optional side game for players, and I'm wondering if that is even considered.
STO is only the second MMO I've stuck with for more than a month. City of Heroes was my first MMO and I was there for 8+ years. Crafting there was a kinda late addition to the game, coming 3 years after launch. Crafting was very similar to the old crafting system here in STO, at least from what I saw of it. You wanted to make something, you'd just gather the mats needed and craft it. Granted, here in STO there were things that were somewhat level gated behind your crafting skill, but it was easy enough to level that skill, perhaps too easy.

I figured with the revamp here it'd be good to at least try it out. Right now, with basically 10 levels to go before reaching the (current) level cap, crafting is useless. All I'm doing is saving things up so I can more easily craft things once I'm at the cap and have the crafting schools at level 15.

In 3 months.

Boring about sums it up.

As for crafting being a side game, that's one of the saving graces. I can craft items for alts, which with me being an altaholic is a good thing. I'll make progress doing actual crafting and get at least some return on the time and resources spent.

Unfortunately, my altitis is on hold for the time being until more info is released about the Delta Rising expansion and the road to level 60. So while I actually like being able to at least craft little stuff for alts, even that now is on hold.

Good thing I'm somewhat patient.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 12
08-05-2014, 10:52 AM
Day 9

Ground Weapons and Beams are still at level 5 and Engineering finally got to level 4. The R&D weekend was ok, but it could have been better. Or even permanent as far as the project XP goes. Back to the near mindless slog to 15.

I guess I'm getting luckier in the DOff crits as well since I got 2 Beta-Tachyon Particles.

Very short day, only 30 minutes of play time, but got to level 41.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 13
08-06-2014, 01:25 PM
Day 10

Beams is now at level 6. Ground weapons is still at level 5, Engineering is still at level 4.

I REALLY want to craft stuff but it just isn't worth it. I can buy some stuff off the exchange for less than it would cost me to buy one rare mat. Even if I had all the mats needed to craft MK X items at the moment, I wouldn't bother since my crafting skill is so low I'd only get commons. If I'm getting commons, I'm not blowing good mats.

Not to mention that with only 5 levels separating MK X and MK XI, I wouldn't even get anything crafted before I got to lvl 45 and started using MK XI stuff. Well, if I were able to play straight thru from lvl 40-45 that is. I figure based on the amount of time it takes to level, yeah, I could get from 40-45 in 3 hours, which is how long it'd take to craft a beam array. Essentially, start crafting something and before it's finished, I've out-leveled it.

However, since I have had to break things up the last couple of days, I could have started crafting projects before logging off, but that would mean not making as much progress as foregoing crafting and just slotting the 20 hour projects. The system is making less and less sense to me the longer I do this.

Got a Beta-Particle and Tetrazine Gas from a DOff crit.

Got 3 Z-Particles from a node in Ghost Ship.

Another short day with only 30 minutes put in, but did manage level 42.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 128
# 14
08-06-2014, 10:04 PM
Another thing I have noticed is, if you are planning to craft gear to give alts or people leveling in your fleet, your crafting gives you Mk III, V, VII, X, XI or XII gear. Remember the break points for the gear you needed at commander and/or captain level? You can't even make that.
"Susse-thrai" had been the name bestowed upon her, half in anger, half in affection, by her old crew on Bloodwing; the keen-nosed, cranky, wily old she-beast, never less dangerous than when you thought her defenseless, and always growing new teeth far back in her throat to replace the old ones broken in biting out the last foe's heart.
Romulans: left one homeworld, lost another, third time's the charm?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 15
08-07-2014, 08:26 AM
Day 11

Beams at lvl 6 still, Ground Weapons got to lvl 6 and Engineering hit lvl 5. Fourth project slot open, I guess since I said I'd do it, I'll start leveling up Shields.

Got 6 Beta-Tachyon particles from nodes in Friend of My Enemy. Received 3 Rubidium from a node in Taris. Perhaps rares do start dropping more as you get higher in level. Or it could be the RNG just being kind for once.

After 2 hours I got to level 45. With what I said yesterday and looking it over, 30 minutes 2 days ago plus 30 minutes yesterday and today with 2 hours... yup, lvl 40-45 in 3 hours.

The progression for the crafting system seriously needs to be looked at. There is only a small window in which a player can craft anything useful for their current level. After that, crafting is just stuck so far behind, it's not even funny.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 16
08-08-2014, 07:03 AM
Day 12

Just a little note about how I keep track of things and to help explain some seemingly odd timing that may appear in my posts. I keep notes on my play sessions and write them up later that night or early the next morning to post. So the day I'm posting about "today" is always about "yesterday".


Well, today didn't exactly start off on a stellar note. Had some time before maintenance and decided to start getting some new gear. Saw the little 'green button' in my DOff window and decided to look at what I got. I brought up the R&D tab first and I just started clicking on the collect buttons to get the new projects going. Unfortunately, they weren't done and I ended up blowing 10k Dil to finish them early. Total, not each thankfully. Nearly wiped out my Dilitium supply since I'm leveling and not trying to collect a TON of Dil.

There absolutely needs to be an confirmation button for using Dil to finish projects early. Sure, it's my fault for not paying enough attention, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not the first person to do this.

PLEASE make a confirm button when spending Dilithium. The system is so clunky in it's current state, adding something like this in would at least show some willingness to listen to players desires.

Okay, time to get back on track.

Beams and Ground Weapons are still lvl 6, Engineering is still lvl 5 and Shields made it to lvl 2.

[insert rant about not being able to craft anything useful ]

Now that I'm lvl 45, it's time to get my MK XI gear. In 5 levels I'll start the rep projects, so probably by the weekend I'll have that going. We'll have to see how possible real life makes that.

Got 3 Rubidium from a node in S'harien's Swords. Got 2 Z-Particles and 2 Beta-Tachyon Particles off a pair of DOff crits.

An hour and a half of playing got me to lvl 47. Might just make 50 tomorrow.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 17
08-09-2014, 08:56 AM
Day 13

Beams and Ground Weapons are still stuck at lvl 6, Engineering still at lvl 5 and Shields got to lvl 3. Yipee!

Got 1 Z-Particle, 1 Beta-Tachyon and 2 Tetrazine Gas off DOff crits.

Got 3 Rubidium and 3 Z-Particles from nodes in Mine Enemy.

After a little over an hour, I hit 50. Time to get my rep stuff going.

I guess now I'll need to do a write up on this whole not-quite-2-week experiment. It'll be in my next post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 18
08-09-2014, 09:38 AM
I hate to say it, but it's sad looking back at this. I was able to craft things for my level for a grand total of 4 hours. Add in crafting time for those items and I used them for a total of 3 hours for the first 2 beams, 2 hours for the last 2 beams and a whole hour for the console. And it took less than 20 hours to get from level 11 to level 50.

I'll be generous and say that the entire road from lvl 1-50 would take 25 hours if all you do is DOffing and running missions.

Now granted, if I keep going with the crafting system, I'll eventually be able to craft MK XII items for my now lvl 50. But I won't get to a level where that becomes realistic for another 3 months.


In those 3 months, I'm going to be t5 in all the reps and able to get rep gear which will be at least equal to, if not better than, almost anything I could craft. And I will know exactly what I'm going to get with the rep gear, unlike the pure gamble that is the crafting system.

I honestly don't think this crafting system works as it currently is. I know there is talk that we will be able to choose what mods we want on the gear, but that isn't here now and what we have now is what I'm judging.

I suppose I could at least speculate on the possibility of what the future may hold for the crafting system...

If someday the crafting system does indeed get a feature to create items with specific mods, great. As long as the COST doesn't increase. Otherwise, I doubt I'll waste my time or resources.

With the coming expansion and the level cap increase to lvl 60, I'm betting MK XIII gear will need at least a crafting level of 16-17 to be "on level" to craft items. MK XIV gear will likely need lvl 19-20. Which means that if the time table for the expansion holds out and we do indeed get it in October, it's possible people won't even be lvl 15 in the schools when it releases, maybe within 2-3 weeks after though. And then it's another 6-ish months to get to lvl 20?

6-7 months after Delta Rising goes live, we'll likely have Season 10 and maybe even getting ready for Season 10.5. I can't imagine having to wait THAT long to be able to reliably craft gear for a lvl 60 character. A character that will probably be lvl 60 within a month after DR launches. And that's really freaking slow and taking your time soaking in every piece of story.

But you just know there are going to be folks who will hit level 60 before it's been live a week. At least if lvl 50-60 follows a leveling curve anywhere close to levels 1-50.

/end speculation

Now, since I don't have any real info to go on, most of everything I just typed could become the ramblings of a madman. But one thing is fact, that leveling the crafting system, if done only with crafting level appropriate and usable items, you won't get far at all. Unless you don't mind wasting loads of resources on commons.

If you want to level crafting, the only ways to do it are:

1. Craft what you can while you can including items for alts and using loads of mats to craft components. And also using the 20 hour projects to make headway.

2. Use only the 20 hour projects to level.

3. Craft a boatload of vendor trash, maybe get lucky and make a few thousand EC from time to time as well as running the 20 hour projects

4. Craft. No 20 hour projects and just simply craft.

5. Use insane amounts of Dilithium to speed through to lvl 15.

Options 1 and 2 are reasonable, option 3 is feasible but I can't see lots of people doing it. Option 4 just seems really slow and almost bordering on torture and option 5 is insane to me. Especially considering the Dilithium cost of some of the MK XII gear. Use Dil to craft components that will be used in gear that needs even MORE Dil?

No thanks.

I get that the crafting system isn't going to appeal to everybody. Perhaps I fall into that category, but I don't want to. I would really like to use the system. As it is now though, it's just button clicking for 3+ months with nothing to really show for it.

Oh yeah, I mentioned that I would 'grade' the new crafting system as either...

(a. Great

(b. Eh

(c. Horrid

Well, to be honest, it's definitely not Great but it's not Horrid either. I suppose "Eh" sums it up well enough, though it does lean more to the Horrid side than it does the Great side.

If I were to grade it on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being completely worthless and 10 being everyone needs to do this no matter what, I'd give the system a 4.

If I were to say yay or nay, thumbs up or thumbs down, I'd have to go with nay and thumbs down. But I try not to deal in absolutes.

These are my opinions only and based on what little I've gone through so far. Will my opinion change as time goes on? I'm sure it will. And if it does, I'll let you know. I will continue to update this from time to time. Maybe a couple times a week since I will keep leveling crafting at the very least until I hit t5 in all my reps.

I won't bother keeping track of mat drops anymore since I'll be running the queues now. There are plenty of other topics discussing drop rates.

Last edited by rnaught; 08-09-2014 at 09:43 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 16,536
# 19
08-09-2014, 11:31 AM
yeah it's very time consuming...

I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
# 20
08-12-2014, 09:50 AM
Day 16

Beams and Ground Weapons are at lvl 7, Engineering is at lvl 6 and Shields is lvl 4. I cannot believe that the crafting progression is so slow. I mean, I can read the numbers and they tell it's a slow progression, but good grief, I'm lvl 50 and have been for a few days and I'd like to craft some gear FOR lvl 50. But I can't, not reliably enough anyway. I'm not wasting VR components that cost Dil to make and even more Dil on top of that to craft what will most likely be commons.

Now, If I could craft at least uncommons (with no chance of getting anything above uncommon AND with my choice of mods) without having to use VR mats or components, I would do that. At least it'd be something.

Already tier 2 in all the reps. Funny thing is, I've gotten some okay equipment already from the random project boxes. And I'm actually using some of it. I've already gotten better lvl 50 random gear from leveling up my rep than I have from crafting. And it'll be that way for some time.

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