Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-15-2010, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Diodes
No- it wouldn't even threaten the nearest star system, only its partner(s) in the case of a binary or trinary system, and their related planets.
Not quite. For example, it has been theorized that the radiation released by a supernova within about 25 light years of Earth would destroy about 50% of Earth's ozone layer, exposing the surface to many more cosmic rays then it is now exposed to. I am not quite sure on the exact distance of Romulus from Hobus, but theoretically a supernova could have been seriously detrimental to Romulus, but not cataclysmic.

Now a hypernova, an exceptionally large supernova, is theorized to have been responsible for the Ordovician–Silurian extinction event about 440 million years ago, which resulted in the death of about 60% of life on Earth. This hypernova was about 6,000 light years from Earth. Once again, not as cataclysmic as the Hobus supernova, but still devastating enough for a hypernova to be included in a list of doomsday scenarios.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-15-2010, 03:09 PM
the Hobus supernovaz was approx. 500 light years from Romulas, so yes based off current data know about supernova and hypernovas damage would have been damaging to the starsystems in question.


the evacution didn't happen because the romulans and even the Vulcan Science Academy did think it was a threat to the Romulan homeworlds be cause of the distance. As you'll see in the Commander LVL Hobus Chain, the is a reason Romulans and Klingons can't be trusted and certain things are banned in civilized society.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-15-2010, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Diodes
As far as sound in space, the explanation is very simple: sensors. They can detect energy on all sorts of frequencies- visible light, gamma rays, tachyons, you name it. Why not sound waves? The ship and explosion are made of matter, so there is certainly a sound. The sound won't travel through a vacuum, but if you have sensors in range it only makes sense that they would relay the sound along with the picture.
Sound doesn't travel in a vacuum because it is a pressure wave. No medium (such as air on earth) no pressure wave, no sound.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-15-2010, 03:14 PM
How fast/slow for our sun to go nova and the time for us to feel the effects?

I always though the impact of a systems sun going nova and the cataclysmic effects would be months/years rather than a car bomb speed depicted in movies.

It's not Romulus was 3 blocks away from the car bomb.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-15-2010, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenstein View Post
Not quite. For example, it has been theorized that the radiation released by a supernova within about 25 light years of Earth would destroy about 50% of Earth's ozone layer, exposing the surface to many more cosmic rays then it is now exposed to. I am not quite sure on the exact distance of Romulus from Hobus, but theoretically a supernova could have been seriously detrimental to Romulus, but not cataclysmic.

Now a hypernova, an exceptionally large supernova, is theorized to have been responsible for the Ordovician–Silurian extinction event about 440 million years ago, which resulted in the death of about 60% of life on Earth. This hypernova was about 6,000 light years from Earth. Once again, not as cataclysmic as the Hobus supernova, but still devastating enough for a hypernova to be included in a list of doomsday scenarios.
okay,
1) You get 50 geek points for that, automatically. Gratz.

and,
2) This is a fascinating theory, but think about it: 35 quadrillion miles away, a star goes hypernova. 6,000 years later, most of the life on earth dies. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it is kinda hard to swallow when you think about it, is it not?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-15-2010, 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
Sound doesn't travel in a vacuum because it is a pressure wave. No medium (such as air on earth) no pressure wave, no sound.
You are aware that sound does not travel through the wire to your earphones by way of a pressure wave, aren't you? An electronic signal crosses the wire, then is turned back into a sound wave. A laser microphone & sensors would use this method as well, but with different types of signals.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-15-2010, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkAthena View Post
How fast/slow for our sun to go nova and the time for us to feel the effects?

I always though the impact of a systems sun going nova and the cataclysmic effects would be months/years rather than a car bomb speed depicted in movies.

It's not Romulus was 3 blocks away from the car bomb.
Events on the sun take 8 minutes to effect Earth; we are 8 light minutes from the sun. For other star systems, just figure 1 year per light year before the effects are felt.

Aside from Binary & Trinary stars, the closest stars I know of are roughly 4 light years apart- so, figure it should have taken at least 4 years or so to get to Romulus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-15-2010, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Diodes
The idea that red matter could create a black hole is silly, too. Black holes destroy with gravity; gravity is based on mass; mass is a constant. A planet contains a tiny fraction of a percent of the mass required to generate enough gravity to create a black hole. Red matter can be carried in a ship in large quantities (as shown in the movie). Ergo, one planet plus one drop of red matter does not equal black hole.
I have one problem with something you said.

Mass is not constant.

I give you a simplified version of Einstein’s equation E=mc^2 and I am sure we all are familiar with that equation.
Since the speed of light is constant in a vacuum which is the value for this c, the other two variables are not constant so mass is not constant.

Since red matter is "made up" and according to the Wikia this:

Red matter is an unstable substance with distinct gravitational properties, specifically a propensity to condense into quantum singularities, first seen in the 24th century.

Lets in the vein of science fiction apply the properties of red matter to E=mc^2. We can assume that when the red matter is activated it produces such a large amount of energy that it also creates mass so that E=mc^2 still holds.

Energy creating mass is seen in the experiments that take place at LHC, Large Hadron Collider, and also at Cern.

Since Red Matter is a Sci-Fi term, use that E=mc^2 to explain how this fictitious matter can create the mass needed to produce the singularity because it produces a large amount of energy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Diodes
okay,
1) You get 50 geek points for that, automatically. Gratz.

and,
2) This is a fascinating theory, but think about it: 35 quadrillion miles away, a star goes hypernova. 6,000 years later, most of the life on earth dies. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it is kinda hard to swallow when you think about it, is it not?
Not really. Supernova and hypernova are the engines in which most heavy elements are created. In fact elements heavier then iron can only be naturally created by a supernova. The fact that such elements as nickel, gold, and copper are present on Earth prove that the effects of supernovas have very far reaching consequences.

Edit: The radiation and energy created by a supernova would need to go somewhere. There is extremely little in the void of space to absorb that energy. In fact that is one of the big problems of spaceflight: dissipating excess heat-energy that electrical circuits tend to produce. There is nothing in space for that heat to be transferred to in space (no atmosphere for the excess heat to dissipate into like on Earth) and so cooling systems need to be brought up by the spacecraft, increasing weight and cost.

So, with nothing to absorb that energy created by the hypernova, the energy produced by the hypernova will travel in a straight line until it does hit something to absorb it. In the case of the Ordovician–Silurian extinction event, it is likely that that something was Earth. The results would have been ecologically catastrophic.

According to NASA, the result of a 10 second exposure of the Earth to the primarily gamma and ultraviolet radiation of a hypernova would have been a flash frying of 60-70% of the Earth's ozone layer and the severe scorching of whatever half of the planet would have been hit. Long term effects would have been lowered temperatures and temporary increases in expose to the normal ultraviolet radiation resulting in increased cancer rates and such.

What is far fetched about the Hobus supernova is the speed at which it traveled, however this is Trek-scienced away as an after effect of subspace weapons research (ie, the Hobus supernova was not only a supernova explosion, but also a subspace weapon gone wrong) as revealed in events in the game Star Trek Online.

The reason subspace weapons are banned by races across the galaxy is because they are so unstable and hard to control. This is according to both the game and Riker from Star Trek: Insurrection. The research is implied to be illegal research, possibly without the consent of the Romulan senate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-16-2010, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenstein View Post
Not really. Supernova and hypernova are the engines in which most heavy elements are created. In fact elements heavier then iron can only be naturally created by a supernova. The fact that such elements as nickel, gold, and copper are present on Earth prove that the effects of supernovas have very far reaching consequences.

Edit: The radiation and energy created by a supernova would need to go somewhere. There is extremely little in the void of space to absorb that energy. In fact that is one of the big problems of spaceflight: dissipating excess heat-energy that electrical circuits tend to produce. There is nothing in space for that heat to be transferred to in space (no atmosphere for the excess heat to dissipate into like on Earth) and so cooling systems need to be brought up by the spacecraft, increasing weight and cost.

So, with nothing to absorb that energy created by the hypernova, the energy produced by the hypernova will travel in a straight line until it does hit something to absorb it. In the case of the Ordovician–Silurian extinction event, it is likely that that something was Earth. The results would have been ecologically catastrophic.

According to NASA, the result of a 10 second exposure of the Earth to the primarily gamma and ultraviolet radiation of a hypernova would have been a flash frying of 60-70% of the Earth's ozone layer and the severe scorching of whatever half of the planet would have been hit. Long term effects would have been lowered temperatures and temporary increases in expose to the normal ultraviolet radiation resulting in increased cancer rates and such.

What is far fetched about the Hobus supernova is the speed at which it traveled, however this is Trek-scienced away as an after effect of subspace weapons research (ie, the Hobus supernova was not only a supernova explosion, but also a subspace weapon gone wrong) as revealed in events in the game Star Trek Online.

The reason subspace weapons are banned by races across the galaxy is because they are so unstable and hard to control. This is according to both the game and Riker from Star Trek: Insurrection. The research is implied to be illegal research, possibly without the consent of the Romulan senate.
Oh, don't mis-understand-- I have no doubt the radiation would reach us 6,000 years later. My point is more related to how much would reach us. Consider that when something radiates in every possible direction in 3 dimensional space, the concentration of the radiation is reduced with distance at a geometric rate. To give a few examples:
The further you sit from a light bulb, the less light is reflected off the page of your book.
The further you drive from a radio tower, the harder it is to pick up the signal.
The further you are from a fireplace, the less heat radiation you feel on your skin.

Now consider the relative size of a hypernova, and the distance of 6,000 light years (35+ quadrillion miles). If I were to tell you that I dropped an A-Bomb on Mercury, and half of the life on terraformed Pluto was destroyed by the radiation, you may find that a bit hard to swallow as well. It's not that any radiation would be absorbed by the space in between- of course space doesn't absorb anything- but the radiation would be spreading at, quite literally, an astronomical rate.

Again, I'm not saying it isn't possible, nor that it didn't happen. I'm simply saying that an understanding of physics, geometry, and electromagnetic radiation does make the scenario seem a bit unlikely- at least, before running the numbers. I say this because I have a pretty good idea how big those numbers are, and how very, very quickly they will shrink when being divided geometrically over a distance of 6,000 light years.

In any case, I'm not disagreeing with you- merely expressing awe and wonder, and perhaps a bit of doubt. Doubt is fair though; after all, it is only a theory we are discussing anyway.
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