Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
We're talking about the Tier1-skills:
http://sto-builder.binarybit.ch/
(They're on the left)

Rank 7 => +17%
Rank 8 => +17.5%
Rank 9 => +18%

Why should i upgrade my Tier 1-skills to rank 9, if i only get a bonus of 0.5% after rank 7?

We have to put at least 6700XP into Tier 1 to advance to Tier 2.

1 Rank = 100XP

Template 1:
-Starship Operations Training (Rank9/900XP)
-Starship Warp Core Training (Rank9/900XP)
-Starship Engineering Training (Rank9/900XP)
-Starship Projectile Weapons Training (Rank9/900XP)
-Starship Energy Weapons Training (Rank9/900XP)
-Tactical Team Leader (Rank9/900XP)
-Starship Command (Rank9/900XP)
_____________________________________________
6300XP (7 skills)
400XP left, put them anywhere

Template 2:
-Starship Operations Training (Rank7/700XP)
-Starship Warp Core Training (Rank7/700XP)
-Starship Engineering Training (Rank7/700XP)
-Starship Projectile Weapons Training (Rank7/700XP)
-Starship Energy Weapons Training (Rank7/700XP)
-Tactical Team Leader (Rank7/700XP)
-Starship Command (Rank7/700XP)
-Science Team Leader (Rank7/700XP)
-Engineering Team Leader (Rank7/700XP)


The last 2 skills can each be replaced by one of these skills too:
Assault Training, Close Combat Training, Scientific Practice, Scientific Theory, Maintenance Training, Modification Training
_____________________________________________
6300XP (9 skills)
400XP left, put them anywhere


================================================== ================
Summarized:
Template 1:
-1% bonus for every space skill

Template 2:
-2 extra-(ground)skills, each at rank 7

So if you're not the calculator-type of guy ("I have 0.00045% more attackpower, you're doomed"), Template 2 seems superior to me, but i just started STO and that's why i need your opinion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-15-2010, 12:48 PM
In answer to your original question....because if you do not spend the point's, you don't get promoted
I don't think anyone mentioned having to max out all the skills.....or any of them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Yeah. Prettty much. Spending skill points on the 8th and 9th point of Tier 1 and 2 are the least efficient use of skill points:
http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpr...s-the-numbers/
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-15-2010, 05:04 PM
Because a 1% increase in some of those skills can mean a net gain of 3-5% in extremely important things. Like with Weapon skills where it applies to every weapon individually. As you get more weapons you get a bigger increase out of the same %. Starship Command and Warpcore training are also good examples.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-15-2010, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XDevantX View Post
Because a 1% increase in some of those skills can mean a net gain of 3-5% in extremely important things. Like with Weapon skills where it applies to every weapon individually. As you get more weapons you get a bigger increase out of the same %. Starship Command and Warpcore training are also good examples.
I am very curious as to how 1% turns into 3-5%. Lets break it down, you are saying that 1% effects 5 different weapons.
Now lets say we have 5 phasers, which do 100 base damage each. your total damage is 500.
A 1% increase, means each phaser does 101 damage now, for a total damage of 505.
505 is a 1% increase of 500, not a 5% increase.

Now lets take into account a skill like Attack Pattern Alpha, which gives (roughly) a 30% increase to all damage.
With 100 damage per weapon, you will now do 130, for a total of 650 damage.
With 101 damage per weapon, you will now do 131.3, for a total of 656.5 damage.
656.5 is a 1% increase of 650.

Thus proving, that a 1% increase, is always a 1% increase, no more, no less, even with 1 weapon, or 100 weapons.

In summary, no, points 8 and 9 are generally NOT worth it, unless they unlock an important skill for you, like Fire On My Mk III or something. ALOT of the gameplay is ground based, and you will notice a SIGNIFICANT improvement from 7 points in various ground skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-15-2010, 05:46 PM
In theory if you are talking about combined dps, Arronicus you're are right. But because of different weapon types and different arcs of fire you have to take every weapon individually and for different amounts of weapons slots ect. and when you start factoring in things like Power levels and weapon skills and consoles things get hairy very quickly. There are skills that are most certainly worth maxing from a min/max perspective. 1% in certain skills can be vital depending on your play style.

OP you want to focus the skills that will benefit your style of play the most and what will best help you advance. If you're really worried about efficiency you can spend 6 points in every skill.

A good alternative is not to go past 4 ranks of anything that's not vital.

I would highly recommend maxing out DPS related skills (ground and space) and Starship Command and Warp Core training. Those are the skills you will almost always be using and therefore will have the largest impact on game play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-16-2010, 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arronicus
I am very curious as to how 1% turns into 3-5%. Lets break it down, you are saying that 1% effects 5 different weapons.
Both your assumption and the OP's assumption that "+1" or "+0.5" to any skill immediately equates to that value modifying said skill in a direct percentage value is incorrect. Needless to say, the arguments based upon said assumptions are equally flawed.

I might refer you to Al Rivera's post about this here where he does suggest that certain skills may work in a direct 1:1 percentage ratio, but certainly not all of them. The fact of the matter is that these skills are largely undocumented and the only thing we know for certain is how additional points in the same skill modify that value in relation to less points in the same skill. Anything else is just guesswork based on user-end testing.

Therefore saying that bringing a Tier I skill to ninth rank is inefficient is largely based upon opinion more than anything else. Fact of the matter is that all Tier I skills apply broadly to a large variety of skills, and you have too many skillpoints to not raise several to ninth rank. Overall this seems like a pointless discussion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Actually what Al Rivera said was:

Quote:
In some more powerful abilities, itís not a one-to-one ratio and you only get half the bonus from Skill.
In that statement, he was talking about powerful high end abilities. The OP of this thread is talking about the basic Lt rank skills. Which, while they may have the lowest bonuses, they are the most widely useful.

To the OP, this is why we have the freedom to spend points however we like. If you feel that the bonus from point 8 and point 9 are not good enough, then spend your points differently.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-17-2010, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vobe
To the OP, this is why we have the freedom to spend points however we like. If you feel that the bonus from point 8 and point 9 are not good enough, then spend your points differently.
I'm just doing math. I never played the beta and that's why i never could see if 9 ranks makes a difference to 7. I just started my character and don't want to waste skillpoints,

Additional replies would be appreciated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-17-2010, 07:54 AM
The thing is, although it is a very small bonus, there are two things to consider.

1. there aren't that many Lt rank skills for you to put your points into. You will have most of them at rank 9 when you reach Lt Commander and the next colomn of skills open up to you. (or, in your case, you can probably get all of them to 7 by the time you rank up. So where exactly you spend those points at this level doesn't need to be nit picked that badly.

2. This is the cheapest rank of skills. They only cost 100 per point and apply to a wide variety of places. So blowing 100 points for a .5% gain is probly not that bad. It is at the higher levels that you will want to nit pick where you spend your points on.

For example. Polaron weapons. This is a T5 skill. Each point costs 500 skill to buy. If you dont use Polaron weapons, then this is a huge waste.

All of the skills at T3 - T5 ranks are very specific improvements, and expensive. That is where you will really want to choose carefully. But at T1 and T2, you will probably want most every skill.
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