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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,250
# 21
08-11-2014, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rankin0bass View Post
A small problem I've noticed with the doff filter, it doesn't allow you to narrow down by traits very well. Select say, "cunning" and "unscrupulous", and it shows all doffs that have at least one of those two traits when it should only show the doffs that both of the traits.
The OR operator is more useful than the AND operator in many cases.

AND: show doffs that meet all of the selected criteria (e.g., cunning AND tactful AND unscrupulous)
OR: show doffs that meet at least one of the selected criteria (e.g., cunning OR tactful OR unscrupulous)

Suppose there are three traits that improve the mission's chance of critical success. Also suppose you have doffs with two, but not all three, crit traits. If the trait filter used the OR operator, then you could select all three crit traits and look through the list for doffs with two. If the trait filter used the AND operator, then you would have to check every combination of two crit traits separately; selecting all three would give you an empty list.

If I remember correctly, the old trait filter also used the OR operator, as does the trait filter in the "Roster" tab. The rarity and specialization filters use the OR operator as well, though it is more obvious with those filters, since rarities and specializations are mutually exclusive. What's different now is that if no rarity or no specialization is selected, then the list of doffs is empty. Before Season 9.5, if no rarity was selected, then all rarities were allowed, and likewise for specialization; the rarities and specializations were unchecked by default. The old behavior wasn't quite logical, but it was more useful.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,101
# 22
08-12-2014, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toiva View Post
The 'Request more...' tab is still there, but very hard to find (and access) nowadays.

See this pic with a suggestion to place it back where it used to be.
Just open the filters drop-down and select "RECENT RECRUITS" (this one defaults to 'off'). This will show only the doffs you've just received.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 23
08-12-2014, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
The OR operator is more useful than the AND operator in many cases.

AND: show doffs that meet all of the selected criteria (e.g., cunning AND tactful AND unscrupulous)
OR: show doffs that meet at least one of the selected criteria (e.g., cunning OR tactful OR unscrupulous)

Suppose there are three traits that improve the mission's chance of critical success. Also suppose you have doffs with two, but not all three, crit traits. If the trait filter used the OR operator, then you could select all three crit traits and look through the list for doffs with two. If the trait filter used the AND operator, then you would have to check every combination of two crit traits separately; selecting all three would give you an empty list.

If I remember correctly, the old trait filter also used the OR operator, as does the trait filter in the "Roster" tab. The rarity and specialization filters use the OR operator as well, though it is more obvious with those filters, since rarities and specializations are mutually exclusive. What's different now is that if no rarity or no specialization is selected, then the list of doffs is empty. Before Season 9.5, if no rarity was selected, then all rarities were allowed, and likewise for specialization; the rarities and specializations were unchecked by default. The old behavior wasn't quite logical, but it was more useful.
Well, the only place I could really use AND is when trying to grind doffs with certain bad traits. For most other doff missions OR works OK since the game tries to put the best trait matches at the top of the list. The doff grinder doesn't care about traits so it throws them in a random order and you have to scroll around looking for doffs with two ore more traits that you don't want.

Last edited by rankin0bass; 08-12-2014 at 09:07 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 58
# 24
08-12-2014, 01:22 PM
Can we expect an uncheck all box or unchecked all by default is this weeks patch??

The DOFF UI is un usable as is
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,329
# 25
08-12-2014, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
If I remember correctly, the old trait filter also used the OR operator, as does the trait filter in the "Roster" tab. The rarity and specialization filters use the OR operator as well, though it is more obvious with those filters, since rarities and specializations are mutually exclusive. What's different now is that if no rarity or no specialization is selected, then the list of doffs is empty. Before Season 9.5, if no rarity was selected, then all rarities were allowed, and likewise for specialization; the rarities and specializations were unchecked by default. The old behavior wasn't quite logical, but it was more useful.
You do remember correctly. It has always used OR logic. But now that you bring up the subject.. an AND/OR toggle at the top of the filters list would be a really cool addition. I find that at least 20% of the time I would prefer AND logic when I'm slotting specific assignments and that would be a real time saver in those instances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nscar1420 View Post
or unchecked all by default
This is the only acceptable solution. Having an 'uncheck all' button would be an unsightly hack. If the old UI was capable of "if nothing is checked, show everything" then the new UI is as well. It's just a matter of hooking up the filters to the proper logic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Ughfffhhghguhhfg...

Last edited by mightybobcnc; 08-12-2014 at 01:59 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,531
# 26
08-12-2014, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalsovereign View Post
Just open the filters drop-down and select "RECENT RECRUITS" (this one defaults to 'off'). This will show only the doffs you've just received.
You're technically right, but now that you mention it, I've never seen this filter working as I'd expect or like.

On some occasions, this filter showed me all doffs that were added since me logging in AND some doffs I have gained previously (same or even previous day).

On other occasions, this filter only showed me 2 out of 4 or 3 out of 5 new doffs I've gained in the one and only session.

Therefore I've never relied on it and only used it when I inadvertently cleared the 'request more' tab (hoping it would show me what I ant to see: all new doffs).



More to the point, however, using this filter in the 'Roster' tab is even more time consuming and less intuitive than the current emplacement of the 'Request more...' tab.
That's why I propose moving it back on the top bar where it is easily accessed at all times from both Crafting and Doffing.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,250
# 27
08-12-2014, 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rankin0bass View Post
Well, the only place I could really use AND is when trying to grind doffs with certain bad traits. For most other doff missions OR works OK since the game tries to put the best trait matches at the top of the list. The doff grinder doesn't care about traits so it throws them in a random order and you have to scroll around looking for doffs with two ore more traits that you don't want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
You do remember correctly. It has always used OR logic. But now that you bring up the subject.. an AND/OR toggle at the top of the filters list would be a really cool addition. I find that at least 20% of the time I would prefer AND logic when I'm slotting specific assignments and that would be a real time saver in those instances.
While I agree that a toggle would be useful, it only makes sense for the trait filter and only for trait inclusion. Rarities are mutually exclusive, and so are specializations. The AND operator makes no sense for those filters: no doff is both rare and very rare, and no doff is both a doctor and a bartender. Also, the trait filter has two checkboxes next to each trait, one for inclusion and one for exclusion. The only behavior that makes sense for exclusion is to show doffs with none of the selected traits, e.g.,

NOT (cunning OR tactful OR unscrupulous),

or equivalently, by De Morgan's law,

(NOT cunning) AND (NOT tactful) AND (NOT unscrupulous).

Last edited by frtoaster; 08-12-2014 at 04:09 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 274
# 28 Doff UI feedback
08-14-2014, 08:48 AM
The pie chart used for showing the chance of outcome is easier to understand at a glance than is the current bars.
The pie chart is far easier to read and took up less space.

R&D doffs suck up too many precious normal doffs slots
I would rather see cryptic make another section for R&D doffs like they do for colonists and prisoners.
or even a seperate page similar to what R&D materials have.

an AND/OR toggle at the top of the filters list would be a really cool addition.

if no rarity is selected, then all rarities are allowed, and likewise for specialization; the rarities and specializations were unchecked by default.
If the old UI was capable of "if nothing is checked, show everything" then the new UI is as well.


thanks frtoaster for your dedication and the level of detail you include in your posts.

just my 2 ec worth here.
flatulently yours

*****peace*****

and all hail tacofangs !!!!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 657
They did get rid of the negative timer. Although now everything just says "Finishing."

Although that never happens.

Awesome. Good time to have the weekend event.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 129
# 30 same here
08-14-2014, 09:52 AM
allover sadness...
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