Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 79
# 61
08-24-2014, 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
First off, we are talking about Harry Kim who is NOT wearing a space suit vs someone IN a space suit.
I pointed out the spacesuit as evidence that heat does indeed transfer in space. Heavily insulating a spacesuit wouldn't be required if heat couldn't be transferred.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Second, Freezing requires there be moisture in the air to condense and turn into ice. When you are exposed to a vacuum, water and blood will immediately vaporize. Instead of your tongue being frozen, it's going to be boiled due to the vaporization of the molecules.
No, freezing does not require moisture in the air to condense and turn into ice. It requires the average kinetic energy of the molecules to be low enough that they can form stable intermolecular bonds. Neither an atmosphere nor water is necessary. Remember that rocks are just as frozen as ice is, they just freeze at much higher temperatures.

The dissolved air in the blood will come out of solution, and the molecules with higher kinetic energy will also evaporate, but as the reason for that evaporation isn't due to energy input it will leave behind the lower energy molecules that will form the bonds necessary to form a solid.

A visual demonstration of this can be seen in a variety of Youtube videos, such as these ones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM04U5BO3Ug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOYgdQp4euc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oCjj8iDB9I

The majority of the water will freeze incidentally (~80-90%), so your tongue will indeed freeze due to the vapourisation of the water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Third, temperature change is immediate in space due to the lack of medium. Where heat is mainly coming from the sun itself.
The temperature change in space isn't immediate because of a lack of a medium; temperature change is just as immediate in a medium as well. You step out of an air conditioned house into the sweltering heat, energy will immediately begin transferring to your cold body. You're temperature will change faster because conduction and convection can also occur, but it's no more or less 'immediate.'

If you mean to imply that the temperature will reach its maximum/minimum 'immediately' then that's just patently wrong. While stepping into sunlight from behind a rock on the moon, you'd immediately begin to heat up, but you won't instantly reach the maximum temperature; it will take time to reach the equilibrium point where the energy you're radiating is equal to the energy being absorbed. When you step back into the shade, then the amount of energy you're radiating will be greater than the energy you're receiving, and you'll slowly cool down to the new equilibrium point. Without being able to use evaporation, it'll take longer to cool down than when you're on Earth.

Without a spacesuit and away from sunlight, you'll cool down quickly initially because of the evaporation, but it will still take time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Fourth, temperatures you quoted are only true in Earth Orbit, not in Deep Space.
Yes, that's because astronauts tend to work around Earth's orbit. In deep space, it only gets colder. You're not going to freeze any less out there. But that's besides the point, because I mentioned it to point out that yes indeed, heat is transferred in space (this goes for the next one too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Fifth, planets don't always get their heat from the sun. You got stellar bodies that have high pressures that generate heat (like Gas Giants), and you got bodies that are under tidal pressure that generate heat as well.
They are no exception, areas in sunlight are warmer than areas in shadow. The sunlit side of Io for example, can be around -143C, while the shadow side is about -183C.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 216
# 62
08-24-2014, 06:14 AM
Why is everyone talking about his remains being exposed to space?

They didn't just toss his corpse out the airlock

He would have been sent off in a torpedo casing just like every other Starfleet space funeral we've seen

I suspect that the Kobali have found and re-animated him
partly to save on va costs if they have Mr Wang voicing two Harrys rather than one Harry and someone else to voice the main Kobali contact

+ think of the philosophical ramifications if Harry remembers who he is too
does the Re-birth process not wipe human memories?
are you still the same person?
do you have the same soul?
what makes you you?
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,986
# 63
08-24-2014, 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exa12 View Post
Why is everyone talking about his remains being exposed to space?

They didn't just toss his corpse out the airlock
This is where I stopped reading... He was blown out through a hullbreach... same result.

Try to keep up
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 79
# 64
08-24-2014, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exa12 View Post
Why is everyone talking about his remains being exposed to space?

They didn't just toss his corpse out the airlock

He would have been sent off in a torpedo casing just like every other Starfleet space funeral we've seen
He got blown out of a hull breach. No torpedo casing for him, unless they went back for the body so they could throw it out again properly.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 924
# 65
08-24-2014, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by talonxv View Post
Here's a better idea, GOOD LUCK FINDING HIM!

He was ejected from voyager with momentum so god knows where his body went in 32 years. For all you know he could of been sucked into the engine of a passerby ship and vaporized, or fallen into a sun.

God knows where that body would be in the vastness of space. I mean good intentions but did you all REALLY think this through here?
Indeed, that's why Worf and Kor ultimately got rid of the Sword of Kahless by beaming it into space (and then somehow gave it a nudge to start it spinning away from the beam-out site in the last shot of that DS9 episode) - to make it next to impossible for anyone else to find.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,031
# 66
08-24-2014, 07:18 AM
They should make him into a Haloween event where you need to take on a Harry Kim zombie created by a mad alien scientist!
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,024
# 67
08-24-2014, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustychat View Post
He got blown out of a hull breach. No torpedo casing for him, unless they went back for the body so they could throw it out again properly.
which brings us back to my point - therealfluffy your fantasy mission is to retrieve harry kims body from space so he can be returned to earth where he will have a proper star fleet funeral where his body is put in a pod and shot into space.
Quote:
When I think about everything we've been through together, maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey, and if that journey takes a little longer, so we can do something we all believe in, I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 351
# 68
08-24-2014, 08:09 AM
As entertaining as this thread has been to read, my original post was actually sincere and a reference to our cultural habit to retrieve the remains of fallen soldiers if/when possible. Even today, the remains of soldiers who died during the two world wars, are brought back home as the geopolitical situation changes to allow for it. It's nothing strange or weird about it, just a natural human behavior and it's not even limited to soldiers. Just look at the massive operation to recover the victims of the downed MH17 aircraft. Humans just have a need to bring the remains of their loved ones back home. There are several episodes in Star Trek lore that shows this and where the most memorable occasion imho was in the DS9 episode "The Sound of Her Voice".

As to the difficulties of finding Harry Kim's body, consider the following: The Voyager 1 probe has been traveling for 36 years at a speed of 17 km/s and is "only" 116 AU distant, on the border between our solar system and interstellar space. Even our limited technology can still detect the weak radiation it emits. I'm pretty confident that the speed of Harry Kim's body, caused by the hull decompression, are several magnitudes lower than that (or we would've said goodbye to rocket propellants a long time ago and just relied on compressed air).
As have been mentioned in this thread, the Kobali for sure has the technology to detect bodies in space and it stands to reason that they aren't just lucky to stumble upon them in the vastness of space. And as I mentioned earlier, even USS Voyager could detect the two spaced Kazons from far away so I don't see any problems to find Harry Kim in the limited volume of space where he can possibly be.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3
# 69
08-24-2014, 10:23 AM
Has anyone here stopped for even a second to consider he was almost certainly wearing a combadge when this happened? Sure it's been out there a long time so the power cells may be dead, but it's still the sort of thing that narrows stuff down just for composition and whatnot. It is likely to be revealed it contains special handwavium for just this sort of situation!

Also, Starfleet and the Federation at large tend to go a long way to honor cultural customs. Whereas Spock's situation might have been fine for a torpedo casing launch, Harry's wishes might not be the same... and this Harry's wishes would be the ones recorded on the Voyager that made it back.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 216
# 70
08-24-2014, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratedec10 View Post
Has anyone here stopped for even a second to consider he was almost certainly wearing a combadge when this happened? Sure it's been out there a long time so the power cells may be dead, but it's still the sort of thing that narrows stuff down just for composition and whatnot. It is likely to be revealed it contains special handwavium for just this sort of situation!

Also, Starfleet and the Federation at large tend to go a long way to honor cultural customs. Whereas Spock's situation might have been fine for a torpedo casing launch, Harry's wishes might not be the same... and this Harry's wishes would be the ones recorded on the Voyager that made it back.
its not just his combadge, theres the wreckage of an starfleet ship, and all of its associated identifiable alloys... and voyager knows where he started off
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