Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,211
# 21
08-29-2014, 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantra View Post
[...]
Yeah, too many players going from zero to 180,900 miles per hour. Remove Attack pattern omega from the game and make emergency power to engines duration 6 seconds. I'ts like the game supports cowards or something.
Ship speed is only one aspect. Everything is terribly fast in STO space PvP: Movement, damage, healing, holds and snares, and what have you.

This is true compared to the TV show, compared to the game's PvE (!), and as a personal remark, it is terribly fast compared to my own reflexes (and I do sports fencing, so I am not totally slow).

I believe that the result of these three comparisons, which everybody will make to some extent when trying out PvP, are why PvP is unpopular among STO's playerbase.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 121
# 22
08-29-2014, 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
The amount of FAW is forcing some players to run FBP.
Did I mention there's alot of FAW?

FBP or FAW itself isn't really the problem, the problem is the general knowledge of the PVP playerbase.


People run a FAW/A2b build because it's just whats popular right now, so the knowledge how to build and setup up boats with these skills virals among the players. These builds will in most situations overwhelm "the avarage PVP'er". So the easyest counter to this is FBP. People does not have either the knowledge or maybe the time to develop another counter to this, so it results in a huge FAW vs FBP clash.

The irony is that atleast in my opinion, neither of these skills would make any difference if you are facing an oponent that really knows what their doing. If you look at the best of the best 5 man teams, or the best of the best 1 v 1 players, i would bet that very few runs these skills the way they are used now.

Having a global cooldown on everything also is really just the "easy way to do it". I'm not saying that they cant be effective, but there are way better builds out there. To use a boat with A2Bx2 with 3 Technicians, you sacrifice alot of synergy potential many builds has, if you really look into it. I'm not against anyone using A2B, I use it myself, but only one copy, because it compliments the build i have now quite nicely, also helps to synergize some of my other cycles. But if i had 2 copies of A2B, it would ruin my build. Also if i put a FAW on my build, it would make the purpose of my build go away. FBP is out of the question, because it would require me to sacrifice even more of the synergy i have setup...


Thing is, just because its easy, and somewhat effective, it doesnt mean that A2B, FBP, or FAW is gamebreaking... its just the current meta, and they are all easilly countered. And if you dont believe me, ask some of the TOP PVP'ers in the game, they will all tell you the same thing.
"Better were the days when mastery o' space came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures... but from the sweat of a man's brow and the strength of his back alone. Ye all know thi's to be true!"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 646
# 23
08-29-2014, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantra View Post
He gets it. Someone give this man a medal.

Yeah, too many players going from zero to 180,900 miles per hour. Remove Attack pattern omega from the game and make emergency power to engines duration 6 seconds. I'ts like the game supports cowards or something.
That is the impulse cell console and the evasives every 20 seconds. And now with the CE doff it will be worst.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Ship speed is only one aspect. Everything is terribly fast in STO space PvP: Movement, damage, healing, holds and snares, and what have you.

This is true compared to the TV show, compared to the game's PvE (!), and as a personal remark, it is terribly fast compared to my own reflexes (and I do sports fencing, so I am not totally slow).

I believe that the result of these three comparisons, which everybody will make to some extent when trying out PvP, are why PvP is unpopular among STO's playerbase.
fast paced combat is more fun. The problem is that the UI lag ruins everything. If this is too fast for you, try chess.
Pvp is unpopular cause its bad balanced and p2w (or p2p if you want..), also cause this game player base is casual, and pvp is competitive.
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)

Last edited by playhard88; 08-29-2014 at 05:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 596
# 24
08-29-2014, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrjwrr View Post
Because FBP/Escorts/Warbirds/A2B Cruisers/Sci Captains/Vapers Online.

Still, its better than Escorts Online.
so is better that a ship can be healer and escort at the same time ?

ran out of borgs or you post just for the sake of posting?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,211
# 25
08-29-2014, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playhard88 View Post
[...]
fast paced combat is more fun. The problem is that the UI lag ruins everything. If this is too fast for you, try chess.
So you don't want more people to PvP. Well, then you shouldn't wonder why so few people PvP, why you get no updates to PvP content and why PvP considerations are, shall we say, not a top priority for the devs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,886
# 26
08-29-2014, 06:07 AM
The learning curve for PvE is set very low in order to entice the"casual" gamer or Star Trek fan.

The learning curve for PvP is way way higher. The skill set, the speed, the combinations, strategies, team work, and that's not only what you are doing but your opposing team as well.


That's why it's so hard to break barriers in PvP for newcomers. You're going from content that people can complete with tier 3 or 2 ships with max level equip to Maxed everything onslaught.

Well Cryptic doesn't really encourage skill growth. Only watching what others can do and figured out does. And in PvE you may rarely come across someone so high powered. But in PvP you can expect come across top tier PvPers all the time. But bc it's PvP you might be dying alot. Well that's no fun if you have no chance.
-32nd Vipers- PvP Team

We'll settle this the old Navy way. First guy to die Loses!

Last edited by edalgo; 08-29-2014 at 09:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,173
# 27
08-29-2014, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notrealedna View Post
so is better that a ship can be healer and escort at the same time ?

ran out of borgs or you post just for the sake of posting?
Edit - Don't feed troll.

Last edited by cbrjwrr; 08-29-2014 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Bad cbr.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,676
# 28
08-29-2014, 07:03 AM
I would say there are 3-4 broad problems and a bunch of smaller specific issues

Item-based gameplay sucks and STO is 100% gear based. Games that are skill-based, everybody has the same gear and people do not have ~UR Mk XII Fleet crap with extra procs, they do not have Plasmonic Leech console with a 35 million EC entry fee. That is just the start of it. Some ships are just miles ahead of the 2nd best ships in their class. Some traits are absurdly OP, just checked and Inspirational Leader is 60 million EC right now. Since most of this stuff is about stacking incrementalism, 1% plus 2% plus 1%, it basically blocks out anybody that doesnt have a fully-developed build that gets you close enough for team-play to overcome single advantages. Item-based gaming is just an awful precept.

Limitless stacking is another huge systemic flaw. If you want to have a points-based system, you need to limit the maximum value someway so that balance can be found at the end. Diminishing returns on things like skill points, damage, speed, etc. Then your tac bugship has a starting advantage in its natural area, but other ships in the class can be built to a matching level, and balance found. STO says, your bugship will always be fastest most agile if you want it to be.

Lack of negative off-sets to buffs also contributes to the failure here. What if ResA/ResB provided stacking resist to special types but also reduced resists to opposing energy types? That is where balance lies.

Absence of speed/power differential (typically based on displacement). Escorts are viable beam tanks, and some cruisers are viable cannon attack ships. There is no sense of anything really, except that some ships are locked into their role by hard-design that makes them crap (eg, all Fed cruisers except Avenger). Beams should be different from cannons, not interchangeable, somehting like beams have more range and more accuracy but require much more power to fire, and then scale subsystem power levels by ship volume, so that small ships cannot power more than 1-2 beams. Then cruisers have a role as area-denial, escorts have a role as attack ships, they can step outside their role but will not be as good as the other side. STO just has no clue on this and so we have AtB DEM escorts running around making cruisers irrelevant to anything.

If you want to put all of that under a single banner, the problem is cryptic sells powercreep for short-term $$ gains and has completely ruined the end-game as a result. Now they are addicted to the sugar rush and cant stop. They are working hard to test the bottom on this stuff.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,211
# 29
08-29-2014, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
[...]If you want to put all of that under a single banner, the problem is cryptic sells powercreep [...]
No, that in iself isn't the problem that prevents eople from PvPing. It may be many a PvPer's pet peeve with STO's PvP right now, but that is not what prevents people from PvPing in masses.

And PvP was in a bad shape before that powercreep started anyway.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,151
# 30
08-29-2014, 08:54 AM
Only thing unfair is the haves and the have nots.

Haves, have the best gear, ships, experience, friends and teams

Have nots, do not have any or few of
Chive on and prosper, eh?

My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
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