Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Don't just want to pile on but I didn't see this thread until today. I agree with the OP and all the subsequent comments regarding this mission. I can honestly say that I felt not just duped by the Undine infiltrator in the game but by the writers of this episode. My feeling is that the writers forced me as the player of a Starfleet officer to simply "follow orders" and kill because I was told to kill. I know that things like this happen in wartime but the spirit of Star Trek is to find the moral path when the immoral one is easier to travel.

I would suggest a redevelopment of this episode to allow for another way that allows the player to expose the Undine yet still not murder innocent doctors and scientists. Perhaps an option that allows for subterfuge rather than assault.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-22-2010, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
There it was actually worse because every second Romulan there said something like "I'm just a doctor but I'm going to defend this place."
They still say that. it might not be as frequent, but I saw it a few times during the mission.

DEVS! some feedback or simple acknowledgment would go a long way here...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Kirk would not have done it. Picard would definetely not have done it. Sisko would (probably) not have done it. Janeway would only do it if it meant getting back to Earth sooner (and then only maybe). Archer would rather stood trial than to do it, at least before the Xindi killed about a billion people, and still only maybe.

Star Trek stands for the good of every man (and aliens of all sort), across race, color or background. It is the hope of a brighter future for humankind. Yes, there is war and strife in the different series because the human race is war like by nature and that is what the people want apparently. The STO game is no different, even more so in fact, but I still agree that - first -, after that first room it was pretty obvious what was going on and, -secondly - we should have at least a choice to arrest the (possibly/certainly?) Undine instead of slaughtering all those poor Romulans who in fact is trying to stop the Undines. The Klingons too seem to know this. In fact, only the mighty Starfleet seem to be in the dark about this, just like in the last parts of DS9 when Starfleet and the Federation was infiltrated by Dominion founders.

And the Docs who says "I'm only a Doctor but I will defend---" is still there by the way. Three separate docs said it to me the one time I played this mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-23-2010, 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymond.makowski View Post
They still say that. it might not be as frequent, but I saw it a few times during the mission.
Okay, then they probably just reduced it and I was just lucky. That's a real letdown.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-23-2010, 06:15 AM
It would seem a simple fix for this would be a conversation with the station commander when she is beaten

"Where are the weapons?" -Captain
"What weapons, this is a medical facility." -Romulan Commander
The Admiral shoots her dead.
"Romulans, always lying. Your duty is complete here Captain, please return to your ship and I will take over from here" -Admiral

You return to your ship as ordered. Two Romulan ships appear. Your science officer reports detecting a transporter signal going from the station to the Romuland ship. The Romulan ship hails you and its the Romulan Commander that the Admiral just killed advising you that you are being held responsible for the murder of the science stations crew. You realize its the admiral/undine at this point but are far too late to stop her plan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-23-2010, 06:20 AM
How would that fix anything? You're still killing your way through a Romulan medical facility.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-23-2010, 07:39 AM
I guess its a matter of opinion then. Imo my suggestion takes it from being horrible to being just bad. Its not ridiculous that you would be duped by an Undine pretending to be an admiral into destroying this facility. Its also not unheard of that the Romulans could be pretending its a medical facility.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-23-2010, 08:45 AM
Exchange Admiral Zelle with Admiral Quinn, and it could work, i mean we did many missions for him, so he is KNOWN to us so i guess we would "trust" him more, but this non-name Zelle, was just too cleary something wrong. Another way would be if divide et impera would be more a endquest for the romulan stuff and the mission before that would be handed out by Zelle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-23-2010, 10:11 AM
This mission made me feel as though i were being forced to play ignorant and follow orders that I knew were suspicious. It's like I KNEW I was going to lose, but could do nothing to stop it from happening.

It didn't help that the admiral stuck to my character's back like glue and interfered with movement, either.

I thnk missions like this should offer alternate resolutions depending on the player's choices. I don't think that would be too difficult to script in.

Popping the admiral with one of those Undine-exposing drugs would have been perfect to add as an option before wiping out the whole station. There could still have been SOME confrontation with the station commander; we were still invading thier property after all. But exposing the Undine could have led to a less disastrous outcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-23-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanid
I guess its a matter of opinion then. Imo my suggestion takes it from being horrible to being just bad. Its not ridiculous that you would be duped by an Undine pretending to be an admiral into destroying this facility. Its also not unheard of that the Romulans could be pretending its a medical facility.
No it's not ridiculous, but the way is and the problems are from the beginning to the end of the mission, you can't fix it with another ending.

1) We get the info from the computer that the station is all about medical research and Undine exposing.
Solution: Make that classified, ergo the player can't read it.

2) We have Zelle behaving like Nero in Star Trek XI. The Undine could at least try to play the role of the first Deltan Starfleet admiral.
Solution: Change Zelle's text to something less aggressive. What does she care if there are Romulan witnesses who saw a Starfleet attack? She claims to be one herself. Instead of all that warmongering give her a phaser so she starts the fights.

3) The Romulans telling you that they're just doctors before you kill them.
Solution: Leave that out. Most of them are still Romulan military officers AND should think that humans are either weak or evil, so why bother shouting that before you pull out a disruptor.
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