Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-23-2010, 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
No it's not ridiculous, but the way is and the problems are from the beginning to the end of the mission, you can't fix it with another ending.

1) We get the info from the computer that the station is all about medical research and Undine exposing.
Solution: Make that classified, ergo the player can't read it.
Agreed.

Quote:
2) We have Zelle behaving like Nero in Star Trek XI. The Undine could at least try to play the role of the first Deltan Starfleet admiral.
Solution: Change Zelle's text to something less aggressive. What does she care if there are Romulan witnesses who saw a Starfleet attack? She claims to be one herself. Instead of all that warmongering give her a phaser so she starts the fights.
Yes I do wish she at least joined the fight so it was a tad more believable.

Quote:
3) The Romulans telling you that they're just doctors before you kill them.
Solution: Leave that out. Most of them are still Romulan military officers AND should think that humans are either weak or evil, so why bother shouting that before you pull out a disruptor.
Ok, ok yeah. Change the dialog to something more generic like "Grab a weapon, Starfleet has come to steal our research" or some such, which I imagine a Romulan would believe if they suddenly saw a Starfleet captain on their ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-24-2010, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
No it's not ridiculous, but the way is and the problems are from the beginning to the end of the mission, you can't fix it with another ending.

1) We get the info from the computer that the station is all about medical research and Undine exposing.
Solution: Make that classified, ergo the player can't read it.

2) We have Zelle behaving like Nero in Star Trek XI. The Undine could at least try to play the role of the first Deltan Starfleet admiral.
Solution: Change Zelle's text to something less aggressive. What does she care if there are Romulan witnesses who saw a Starfleet attack? She claims to be one herself. Instead of all that warmongering give her a phaser so she starts the fights.

3) The Romulans telling you that they're just doctors before you kill them.
Solution: Leave that out. Most of them are still Romulan military officers AND should think that humans are either weak or evil, so why bother shouting that before you pull out a disruptor.
I think these are all cosmetic fixes. I would really like to see something like what Zap-Robo supposed, an alternate solution that allows you to beat Zelle, if you realize that these orders don't add up. To make that option not to obvious, there had to be some alternatives in other missions as well. If you choose the right option, you should be rewarded with some extra skill/merits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-24-2010, 03:18 AM
the problem with alternative solutions is that they would have to change more than that mission, since that undine makes one-two reappearings at later missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
02-24-2010, 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpig View Post
the problem with alternative solutions is that they would have to change more than that mission, since that undine makes one-two reappearings at later missions.
Ok, I have not gotten so far yet. In this thread we were operating on the wrong assumption, that the mission was disconnected from the rest of the storyline.

I realize that would make things a bit more difficult. On the other hand, can you elaborate, if it was possible to simply replace Zelle-Undine in later missions by some other generic Undine with slightly different dialog, if you stopped Zelle in "D.e.I."?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-24-2010, 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelGarrett View Post
I think these are all cosmetic fixes. I would really like to see something like what Zap-Robo supposed, an alternate solution that allows you to beat Zelle, if you realize that these orders don't add up. To make that option not to obvious, there had to be some alternatives in other missions as well. If you choose the right option, you should be rewarded with some extra skill/merits.
Of course it would be cosmetic, but it would be better than what we have now and it would be easy to accomplish for the devs. If they don't make multiple outcomes they can at least make the one they have believable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpig View Post
the problem with alternative solutions is that they would have to change more than that mission, since that undine makes one-two reappearings at later missions.
Okay, I'm rear admiral 5, and I thought I did all the missions at the Romulan border before moving on to Deep Space 9. Could you tell me which missions you are talking about? Because I just can't remember seeing her again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
02-24-2010, 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelGarrett View Post
I think these are all cosmetic fixes. I would really like to see something like what Zap-Robo supposed, an alternate solution that allows you to beat Zelle, if you realize that these orders don't add up. To make that option not to obvious, there had to be some alternatives in other missions as well. If you choose the right option, you should be rewarded with some extra skill/merits.
Of course, cant argue there. The game needs to have better branching questlines with multiple outcomes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
02-24-2010, 09:17 AM
I personally think there is a lot of value to a mission that leaves you with an "oh my god what have I done" moral dilemma afterward. I do think some rewriting of the text to better conceal what is really happening until the surprise reveal would make the mission better.

While the possibility of some sort of branching option to the mission that would allow an alternative solution sounds great, from what I have seen I don't think that's something the game engine can do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
02-24-2010, 09:40 AM
Quote:
The game needs to have better branching questlines with multiple outcomes.
Why? Most of the games I consider to be the best, and have the best storyline, are ones that are linear. When the developer has complete control over the writing process, they can put a lot more effort and nuances into it, and have the freedom to do whatever they want with it. By putting the player into the equation, the writers have less freedom to explore.

But, that's my opinion as a fairly strict narratologist, and the debate about narratives in games has been going on for years now. You're perfectly entitled to disagree with me, but if Cryptic hold the same opinions as me, then you'll probably have to deal with it. (As it is in all games, if you don't like how the developer does something then you generally have to put up, or shove off)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
02-24-2010, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerkuman View Post
Why? Most of the games I consider to be the best, and have the best storyline, are ones that are linear. When the developer has complete control over the writing process, they can put a lot more effort and nuances into it, and have the freedom to do whatever they want with it. By putting the player into the equation, the writers have less freedom to explore.

But, that's my opinion as a fairly strict narratologist, and the debate about narratives in games has been going on for years now. You're perfectly entitled to disagree with me, but if Cryptic hold the same opinions as me, then you'll probably have to deal with it. (As it is in all games, if you don't like how the developer does something then you generally have to put up, or shove off)
For simple variety. Besides that, if you are playing an RPG I think it feels more natural to have multiple options for a branching story than a linear one. You feel more in the role when you can decide the path they take. Linear stories are fine imo for less RPG style games or games that want to tell a specific story in which your role is limited.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
02-24-2010, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerkuman View Post
Why? Most of the games I consider to be the best, and have the best storyline, are ones that are linear. When the developer has complete control over the writing process, they can put a lot more effort and nuances into it, and have the freedom to do whatever they want with it. By putting the player into the equation, the writers have less freedom to explore.

But, that's my opinion as a fairly strict narratologist, and the debate about narratives in games has been going on for years now. You're perfectly entitled to disagree with me, but if Cryptic hold the same opinions as me, then you'll probably have to deal with it. (As it is in all games, if you don't like how the developer does something then you generally have to put up, or shove off)
The best linear games are those where you do not realise that they are in fact, linear! Can't think of an example on top of my head, but games where you get so in to the story that you forget that there is in fact only one way to go.
Though I realise that most games might, in fact, be fairly linear and we only notice when the story su cks... Or is that just me? Anyway, this is off topic but just wanted to speak my mind.
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