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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-20-2010, 11:00 AM
True, but it would be a different story if they used the Buddy System, which temporarily boosts the level of those in Earlier Tiers.

That way, Fleets with People from Tier 1 to Tier 5 can PvP together than segregating into "PvP by Tier" groups. And at the same time, you would have Mirandas flying along Galaxies and Akiras, just like in Star Trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-20-2010, 11:17 AM
The mechanics are there for great pvp. Space PvP is well designed, and ground pvp feels innovative, fresh, and fun to me. Whoever designed that system deserves a raise. The problem is that good combat mechanics are just not enough in an mmo these days; this queue system feels worse than dated. I don't see it standing on its own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-20-2010, 11:22 AM
9 Klingons in t5 queues on a saturday.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-20-2010, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpower34 View Post
I have posted stuff on this in other forums. It is an idea almost straight from "End War", the Tom Clancy game that game like a year ago.

The major problem is what if one side loses? You cant just re-start the war if things go badly. In addition they are still working on the competative balance issues of pvp. It will take some time to get it right before this would work well.

One idea that would at least make me happy in the short run is a dev run "war. This would take more micro-managing than I think they would want to do, but it would be like this:

Sometimes, star systems change hands, and this would be reflected on the in game sector maps. In addition, open instance PVP play could be implemented. 1 on 1 encounters. You have option to fight/flight but winning has rewards special medals for instance.

Large scale system pvp fleet actions. I am not sure if this is even possible, but a Starbase 25 style pvp fleet action for control of some systems. There would be limited respaws for each side, and not every player would get to participate.

This could be accomplished 2 ways. Announcing a fleet action and having signups, and then selected people, or by random searches at the time of the action.

There would have to be a large "waiting room",but this could be easily explained in game by "warping to location, etc..."

I agree with the idea that, as an MMO and star trek...I want to feel immersed in the galactic war going on. I want to feel like my actions could play a part, in some way, on what is taking place.
----
Coincidentally, I also feel like there should be a better way of keeping track of in-game time passage. I went from Ensign to Admiral in 3 weeks real life. Even in a war, it should take years. Apparently War 9 will take you from SB 1 to the Deep Space 9 in roughly 7 minutes LOL Too bad that want the case on tv, they never would have lost the station to the pesky founders.

1) What if one side looses?

As addressed...that is what "board clearing" actions such as a common Borg incursion.

2) Ownership changes would have to be shown on sector maps.

Yes and no...you would not need to dramatically alter the galaxy map to reflect incursions...after all the Klingons don't have effective control of Mempa sector, and the Federation missions built into Mempa sector would preclude allowing the Klingons to have that effective control.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-20-2010, 11:30 AM
Quote:
And yes, Tier 5 PvP for Klingons is very dead, which is ironic, since Klingon ships are vastly superior to Federation Ships. Guess they are tired of winning all the time.
It's more a problem of no one to play with. Unless you put together a pre-made, klingons can virtually count on being out-numbered. For instance, the other day I felt like playing some ground, so I queued up. I played 5 games, all of them were 2v5. Myself and one other guy were the only t5 Klingons playing ground on the entire server. That's pretty messed up.

At first glance, one might suspect that open rvr would only exacerbate the player imbalance, but this wouldn't necessarily have to be the case; many of the t5 klingons who quit or rolled alts might start playing their Klingons again if there was some sort of meaningful end game pvp scenario.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-20-2010, 11:51 AM
Actually, the biggest problem is that this game is highly instanced. Each instance would have to have separate set of control locations. However, instances are created and destroyed on the server side based on player load. Because of this, you would have to have the taking and losing of sectors being reflected consistently across all instances.

This is the major problem. How do you fairly judged who has control over sectors when the sectors (and the maps within them) are instanced? If the Klingon players rock the house in one instance (or one instanced map for a system within that sector) they can still lose because the Fed players have been successful over other instances. Is that fair to the Klingon players, then? If the Klingons win in this same scenario, but the Feds couldn't encounter them because the instances didn't line up the player distribution correctly (or because the Klingons purposefully chose an instance with little opposition), then is victory by the Klingons fair to the Fed players?

The instancing of sectors, space, and ground maps creates a serious problem with any sort of territory control scheme. It is so bad, that in my opinion, PvP will NEVER be more than scenarios. This one thing has made it increasingly clear to me that STO was always intended as a PvE game FIRST, like WoW. PvP is just something you do in addition to PvE, not in the place of it.

If you can figure out a way to overcome the problems with this being an instanced map system, then your suggestion is good to go in my book. For my personal tastes, games which involve territory control against other players are ALWAYS more interesting and more fun than PvE games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-20-2010, 12:06 PM
Quote:
This one thing has made it increasingly clear to me that STO was always intended as a PvE game FIRST, like WoW. PvP is just something you do in addition to PvE, not in the place of it.
That would be a huge mistake, given that the pve in this game is mind-numbingly boring. I understand your point about instances; hopefully the creative types at Cryptic come up with an interesting solution to the end-game pvp problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-20-2010, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malize View Post
1) What if one side looses?

As addressed...that is what "board clearing" actions such as a common Borg incursion.

2) Ownership changes would have to be shown on sector maps.

Yes and no...you would not need to dramatically alter the galaxy map to reflect incursions...after all the Klingons don't have effective control of Mempa sector, and the Federation missions built into Mempa sector would preclude allowing the Klingons to have that effective control.

I think that we are, more or less, on the same page here in what we want. I play entirely Fed, so I do not know much about what it is like to be Klingon (just a disclaimer).

I am not sure the idea of "Houses" is a good one. It would be overly complicated to pull off. But you more or less have an NPC high council.

But an idea I have that would expand Klingon game play is this:

Klingon internal cival war. The Klingons rarely agree, as a race, on anything. Even during the Dominion War there was strife, with Gawron eventually being killed by Worf. So as a Klingon, you must pick a "side" (sort of like a mini alliance) and this opens up internal PVP for you in a meaningful way.

This could also lead to Klingon PVE missions where you have to certain missions designed around this idea.

More to the point of this thread.

Open PVP should be implemented in certain area's of the map. If 2 ships run into eachother, they can fight. Ships would be allowed to warp out of these situations if they are outgunned, etc...(this could be a special POWER similiar to transwarp, which has a cooldown, but it is a get out of jail free card if you are getting SMOKED in a fght)

This is very canon as there are many battles where ships fleet when losing badly. Klingons would simply be able to cloak, fly to safe distance and warp out. There would be rewards for these in terms of Medals, but they would simply serve as a way to show your battle prowess not really redeamable for anything.

These open area's would be limited to Neutral Zone area's and bordering sectors. This would add danger to anyone flying around in that area that you could get pulled into a fght. Which would relate well to the idea that there is a war going on. You should be, on edge, as a Captain flying in/near enemy territory.

--
As far as the idea of a dynamic ever changing war, I think Sectors inside a Sector block should change color over time based on fight outcome but that one should shouldnt be allowed to, "win" the war persay. The Klingons wouldnt be allowed to push all the way to SOL and vice versa.

I would prefer that to any 'map clearing" Borg incursons.
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I also think that in the execution of an open pvp instance, 1 on 1 battles would feel more real if there were interactive viewscreen dialog.

Hailing Frequency could be a special Chat Option. Where you could, in character talk bout the battle and/or situation prior to it, or after. I am not sure many would use it, but it would be fun to have the option none-the-less. A klingon demanding a federation player, "prepare to be boarded". Things of that nature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-20-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malize View Post
Total PVP without context just makes it all so senseless.
That's what the convoy captains thought when they were merely 'trading' with the british when the germans sunk them....

Do you honestly think that OPEN pvp warfare is uncalled for in a wartime scenario?

If you do NAIVE party of one thousand is now seating in the I DON'T HAVE A CLUE section of life ...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-20-2010, 02:06 PM
who knows how big the instances CAN be, they might be able to have 100 people for all we know, that last beta event was pretty dang large.

20 people per battle/map just isn't going to cut it, it isn't a graphics problem, i mean SB24 has hundreds of ships on the screen, i think they "spawn" now when you hit a group, but they didn't use to.

They have the bandwith they just need to cut the cords and let us have some FLEET ON FLEET action, real people vs people.

It is a HUGE limitation not having PVP. But i think their resources will first go to finishing the game, then they will begin working on an expansion (which they probably already have) which will have the same cookie cutter missions, for the romulans or cardasians would be my guess, and a 29.99 price tag, but don't expect pvp to be addressed anytime within in the next year.
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