Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-19-2010, 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yargnit View Post
Going to try and take a stab at this;

It's not that Klingon's are actually overpowered (except for maybe t1). It's just the design of the game makes Klingon's appear overpowerd because the situations in which most players will end up pvping greatly favor the Klingon style of play.

What do I mean?

Most players will be PvPing in random groups put together by the PvP que system. - Random groups greatly favor the Klingon advantage of cloak and unleash hell much more-so than the fed style of having to ball up and heal chain etc.

Most players will not know how to PvP well. - PvPing from a group that is based off 'everyone unclock and shoot him' is easier to execute at a basic level than trying to counter everyone opening fire on one person.

Most players tend to rush off into the fray after entering a match. - Fed PvP play requires everyone to form up together first off before attempting any action, Klingon players with cloak can warpoff to their hearts content and worry about forming together later.

Also a few PvP gameplay issues not directly related to Klingons at all greatly hamper Federation random teams.

The biggest of these is no auto-teaming. Fed groups to stand a chance in PvP need to be set in a team where heals can be thrown toward the Klingon's called target immediatly. What happens in most matches however is some Fed players will warp off before anyone can even attempt to team up, and once they have warped off initially the fed's chance of victory has gont down dramatically. Simple auto-teaming players in PvP (regardless of a person auto-team settings) will go a long way toward making PvP feel more balanced.

This is a big one;

A lot of the more skilled Fed PvP players after losing badly over and over due to being teamed with people who simply refuse to try and work together have given up and gone to the Klingon side. It's simply no fun to lose 15-0 or 15-1 repeatidly when people refuse to stcik at spawn long enough to let you send out team invites, and even when you do invite refuse to follow simply direction and warp off alone.The prevailing feeling is that by going over to the Klingon side we will stand a real shot in a far larget % of the games simply because being, A; there are less stupid players, and B; as basic level PvP doesn't require as much coordination. (Not saying Klingon's dnt have to owrk together just as much at the high end, simply that at the low end Klingons can function on a winnable level with less complex coordination)

I'm leveling an alt purely to PvP with;

I've played In a fed PvP group (all randoms, but we found each other and stuck together for several hours) that worked well together, and won probably 80% of our matches. We all went in as a team, balled up, and figured out a basic strategy ahead of time to try and counter the Klingon inital alpha strike. (Nothing complex, just targeted player throws full pwoer to engines and evasives away to drag Klingon pursuers through our ball while we atempt to heal them as long as possible)

But then I took the same character out agian the next day (full support/heal setup t2 sci vessel) and never had a match that was even remotly close. Despite my repated attempts I just couldn't get anyone else to form up in a basic defencive setup, much less get themto understand the basics of trying to survive the Klingon alpha strike. - And we stood no chance.

Basically a Fed PvP group requires more fundamentals to function on a basic competative level, yet due the the natured of PvP as a playstyle for Fed vs Klinsons, Klingon players will nearly always have a much stronger grasp on these basics. If we can't get the Fed players even on a team together, how will we ever have a chance to keep the Fed player Klingons initially target alive?

So what is the result? I (as another of my friends has previously) made a Klingon to PvP with. Where I know I'll at least stand a chance in a random group most times, and even when I lose we wont be blown out by 3 or more times our score. - Thus the Fed side loses another compitent player and the ratio of compitent/incompitent gets worse.

So what do I suggest?

First as I stated earlier, automatic auto-teaming. No way around this, if you're in a PvP match you're on a team together. Teams are absolutely vital to standing a chance, without them you cant target heals/etc viabley, not nor can you strategise/call targets/etc.

Second, fed players need a place to re-group after all being killed without having to worry about being picked off one by one before they can form up. Respawn players in an area that is PvP immune for 30 seconds after the last person was killed. Just enough time to get respawned and in formation again.

(T1 only) Increase handling of Fed starter ship. There is simply no way for feds to compete at t1. Cloak, massive manuverability, and universal BO slots. (+ generally a big equipment advantage) means in T1 a single Klingon can often beat serverl Fed players at once. I'm not saying give them BoP manuverability, not at all, but make the Fed starter ship handle like their basic Science vessel. In t1 Fed ships don't have any of their advantaged that counter their disadvantages yet. And In this tier fed players lose so bad they will likely give up on PvP for good if they dont know better,

Again, not saying Klingon's are actually OP, just that the game makes them appear to be. Besides the T1 fed starter ship I don't feel the actual balance needs tweaking at all, just a few basics that decided how players ar able to interact and work as a team.
All that matters is t5 pvp ,stuff the rest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-19-2010, 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollywog
All that matters is t5 pvp ,stuff the rest.
Which is awesome because t5 was basically untested in beta.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-19-2010, 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOOSEBUMP View Post
I keep getting spam in Zone about "it's an OP thing", "K space is OP", etc wtf are they talking about? When I win it's cause the FED just zerg every node and we back door them...
Too much information!

Now I have to go snort bleach to get the backdooring Klingons out of my mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-20-2010, 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Which is awesome because t5 was basically untested in beta.
Not true, there were a few that "tested" Tier 5 PvP. Though I havn't seen either of those testers since STO went live.



But I will admit, I just love how the Vo'Quv is so great that it tears up 4 Federation Ships at the same time. I could solo PvP Feds all day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-20-2010, 01:39 AM
Klingons are not OP once you acctually fight them, they are OP because they get to pick all the fights.

One Klingon vs. Five Feds, he just stays cloaked.
One Fed vs. Five Klingons, Fed gets owned.

That's why Klingons are overpowered. They never have to fight a losing battle, so this forces Federation to always stay in one single fleet because it's the only way they can be sure to at least force an even battle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-20-2010, 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Klingons are not OP once you acctually fight them, they are OP because they get to pick all the fights.

One Klingon vs. Five Feds, he just stays cloaked.
One Fed vs. Five Klingons, Fed gets owned.

That's why Klingons are overpowered. They never have to fight a losing battle, so this forces Federation to always stay in one single fleet because it's the only way they can be sure to at least force an even battle.
Thunk premades.... 100:1 fed to Klingon ratio and your still not finding premades?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-20-2010, 02:38 AM
The fact that Klingons have more premades just exacerbates the problem that they have an absolute advantage in strategy and organization because the Federation can do absolutely nothing to catch them with their pants down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-20-2010, 02:51 AM
Dealing with 60 million fighters is kind of annoying, but I have went about 50-50 so far in my limited PVP in T5 ships.

A couple interesting notes:

1. I hate when the Klingons are out-numbered and stay cloaked (almost 10 min sometimes) and the say that its not fun to pay 5v2. But, if the fed side has 2, kliingons go nuts and the game starts and is over quickly.

I agree it is no fun to have no chance, but if you are staying cloacked and hidden when you have 2, give a little respect when u run into someone else who has 2.

2. I almost never lose a salvage match as fed. (you fly around controlling little areas) I would say it is like an 80/85-20/15 win/loss ration on thos maps. On the arena maps, I would say its more like 40-60 win/loss.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-20-2010, 03:15 AM
It takes just one un-helpful fed and/or leecher to ruin the teamwork of 4 others...im soo fed up with people, wich have blocked group requests, and then just fly around suiciding and basicaly handing klingons victory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-20-2010, 03:20 AM
All the points made here are "relatively" true. However after playing a lot of Fed PvP I can safely say that in some areas the Klinks have a huge advantage. The only way to counter this would be to have Feds exclusively built around PvP and ONLY PvP. That is not going to happen.

In T3 Klingons get cruisers with cannons. I am sorry but cannons with rapid fire are stupid dps compared to anything else, to deny it is being dishonest. A fed cruiser can't out raw dps a klink one, not unless he never dies and just does damage because hes not targeted. A bit of extra hull is meaningless with RPS and the other shield buff abilities, hull last but seconds against a barrage of torps and rapid fire cannons once shields are down, and even if you do live a "tiny" bit longer in a Fed cruiser, your too busy trying to keep yourself alive to do any real damage. I would take the ability to have cannons and a better turn rate over a few extra hull any day of the week. Its not even a contest.

Its not equal, it's just that well organized fed groups can win against disorganized klinks. That's about it. A vent Klink group in T3 would have to be moronic to lose to a fed group, any fed group. Klinks simply out dps them by leagues. They also get all the same defensive/CC abilities as feds. The only real reason Klingons lose at all is a lot of them have a solo "ganker" mentality that stops them from organizing effectively, or they suicide the fedball out of boredom because their team isn't full.

I don't think it needs a nerf. I just think that some Klingons aren't really being honest with themselves, the ability to cloak and out dps fed groups, in particular in T3 with their cruiser: is a superior position. I have played both sides extensively and in T2 Feds have the clear advantage; but so stop with this "balanced" stuff because its not. Klingons have the advantage in T3. Does that mean Feds can't win? No. But there is an advantage to one side, even if you think it is only "slight".

But it still is true that there are vast amounts of Fed players that don't have the foggiest idea how to PvP. That is still very true.

Feds full impulsing around trying to "find" the Klingons has got to take the cake for me. I want to be able to fire on them myself. (the fact that some of them are still doing this in T3 makes me want to have a "PvP" level that allows for unlocks to the higher tier fights so as to weed out the casuals)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:32 PM.