Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Tier 2 Klingon Advice
02-19-2010, 10:26 AM
DISCLAIMER: This message does not contain or condone any reference to play balance, either directly stated or implied. The author has only empirical data as to the basis of PvP play, consisting perhaps of two dozen Tier 2 matches (and only on the Klingon side, plus relevant Tier 1 experience). The matches have thus far been relatively even, in that sometimes a good group would overcome scattered play, and other times a group would be flattened easily. Each time, win or lose, was treated as a learning experience, and not looked at from the perspective of making a judgment as to the basis of Klingon gameplay in general, or PvP gameplay specifically.

My apologies for the disclaimer, but it seems with so many threads consumed with (or reduced to) bickering with regards to everyone’s different PvP experience, threads with advice or information seem few and far between. That being said:

Last night, in Tier 2, we ran in to (what amounts to) a Federation juggernaut: a full group of Cruisers in Cracked Planetoid. They were well coordinated: they moved quickly to the top of the planetoid, making sure they had clear fields of fire, cast about for us for a bit, and then the lowest level cruiser (seemingly) shot out at random. Before I could even say “It’s a trap”, we had engaged. The results were not pretty – most of them had some form of healing, their bait ship was easily able to withstand our initial alpha strike, and we weren’t able to do much other than take one or two of them down in exchange for wiping our entire group. We shrugged (verbally) in chat, said it was a good day to die, and approached them twice more from several different angles. We ended up losing about 15-4, I think.

After the battle, we were discussing various ways we could have done things differently, and speculating on perhaps various configuration changes that might have helped us. Certainly they were higher level: most were on the cusp of achieving Tier 3, and our group was mid-level Lieutenant Commanders. There lowest level member was their “bait” ship. I was running the only support Bird of Prey, and we discussed ways both to up our firepower (i.e. being able to possibly take down cruisers faster) and/or get more support (so we could at least last longer).

Anything else we should consider?

ANOTHER DISCLAIMER: It’s perfectly okay to say something like “You know what? A big, well-run group of Fed cruisers like that is going to be very difficult for you to take down at this level.” That’s okay – we don’t run in to it every match, so if that’s our toughest challenge, we still give it a shot, and if we can at least get it up to 15-8 or something, we’ll call that victory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-19-2010, 10:37 AM
So in tier 2 you were the only BOP? That means the rest of your team was composed of raptors and there lies your problem. Raptors are the most usless ships in the game. Avoid them like a plague. In order to beat a crosshealing team like the one you have ran into yesterday you need to do crosshealing of your own. That means your BoP should have the following BO skills: Engineering Team 1, Hazard Emitters 1, either Reverse Shield Polarity 1 or Extend Shields 1. RSP or Extend Shields is a massive boost to the entire team, using Raptors denies you access to those two abilities.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Wow, sounded like a fun fight.

You dont see that kind of teamwork anymore from the Fed side, most engagements Ive done recently are the 15-0 kind.

What I do, especially against science/ cruisers its tractor beam, while the whole group focuses on the exposed side.

Of couse, if countered, just set my shields to max power and try to take the brunt of there attacks ( Im an engineer), whey usually move off to softer targets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 4
02-19-2010, 11:03 AM
@GnawLF Sorry, I was not clear: I mean that I was the only Bird of Prey configured as support, not that I was the only Bird of Prey present. We had four Birds of Prey and one Raptor present, but I was the only one spec'd for science / healing.

@Bdelrio Oh, it was fun, especially since, as you said, we've rarely encountered a group that had their tactics down that well. I mean, it was clear that they were baiting us, and it was just as clear that we weren't quite sure what to do. We get so used to Escorts running off and blasting away, or everyone getting target fixation, or the like, that when we do encounter folks that have their act together it's refreshing. :-)

Tractor is a good idea: we should have at least grabbed one of the better healers and pounded that one, and not taken the bait (I think). I think we also needed to be spec'd for better survivability -- they made at least my shields seem like they were some form of Saran wrap. :-)
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# 5
02-19-2010, 11:50 AM
Once you take the bait your hooked!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 6
02-19-2010, 12:08 PM
even though they're all in cruisers, it doesnt mean they're all engineer class. Find a science or tactical officer in a cruiser and test their defenses.

the benefit to BoP is you can always out run and battle cloak. if its clear they're out healing your damage and you WONT kill the intended target...fall back, cloak, regroup

Do some fake attacks where you dont use any specials on someone hoping they blow some of their cooldowns, cloak and do the real attack.

Have your best tank decloak first. the engineer ability 'rotate shield frequency' can be used immediately to mitigate a TON of alpha damage.
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# 7
02-19-2010, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GnawLF
So in tier 2 you were the only BOP? That means the rest of your team was composed of raptors and there lies your problem. Raptors are the most usless ships in the game. Avoid them like a plague. In order to beat a crosshealing team like the one you have ran into yesterday you need to do crosshealing of your own. That means your BoP should have the following BO skills: Engineering Team 1, Hazard Emitters 1, either Reverse Shield Polarity 1 or Extend Shields 1. RSP or Extend Shields is a massive boost to the entire team, using Raptors denies you access to those two abilities.

Thats not true at all. Raptors are very decent ships if you learn how to fly them. They can put out more damage and last longer than a BOP. I've seen more BOP pilots die because they hit battle cloak instead of evasive maneuvers.


At any rate, yeah 5 cruisers are a tough nut to crack. You probably want to have someone play the bait on your side instead of taking their bait. Focus fired, a cruiser still goes down fast. If you can figure out how to split the group up, you can win. You probably want to get their group to full impulse away, and then strike the last ship in formation, since the other cruisers can't turn around to assist fast enough. Not likely to be easy, but thats what I would try.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-19-2010, 01:00 PM
These are feds playing to their strengths. This is how they -should- be playing against KDF.

To deal with this you are going to have to find a good way to bypass shields, support one another, and limit their focus firing.

If you are in a pug, there's probably no way for you to win this In a premade you're going to want to have a couple of people loading up scramble sensors, and some bait using rsp.

Scramble sensors best use is to defeat attack on assist, which stops people from attacking targetoftarget and healing target of target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Yeah going against all cruisers in T2 is fun and hard. Ive only had to do it once and I was out of my comfort zone. i mean killing an escort, running/cloak come back and do it again is so much easier. But Focus fire is what you need. Everyone firing at the same ship hopefully from 2 sides. If you can have 2 people attack the front 3 attack the rear or whatever then youll be more likely to take him down. And it should take less time. Also watch who is healing and get rid of them first on your next attack.

And as far as the lowly raptor comment. In T2, if youre a tac captian. The raptor is the best way to go for the most DPS. High yield 1, rapid fire 1, and Tac team plus alpha strike is deadly. But beyond T2 i have no idea how good/bad it is.
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# 10
02-19-2010, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Thats not true at all. Raptors are very decent ships if you learn how to fly them. They can put out more damage and last longer than a BOP. I've seen more BOP pilots die because they hit battle cloak instead of evasive maneuvers.


At any rate, yeah 5 cruisers are a tough nut to crack. You probably want to have someone play the bait on your side instead of taking their bait. Focus fired, a cruiser still goes down fast. If you can figure out how to split the group up, you can win. You probably want to get their group to full impulse away, and then strike the last ship in formation, since the other cruisers can't turn around to assist fast enough. Not likely to be easy, but thats what I would try.
Raptor in Tier 2 will simply not compare to BoP simply because a smart BoP captain will have reverse shield polarity. In Tier 3 raptors become even more useless as the K't'inga can put out way more damage and cross healing then the Raptor. Raptors are like Fed escorts, they will be the first to be targeted and the first today the downside is that the Klink Tactical Officer cannot boost his damage abiltiies as high as the Fed counterpart thus making Raptor the worst ship in the game.

Finally, playing bait and combat cloaking will not help against a crosshealing team. The ONLY way to beat a crosshealing team is to do a lot of crosshealing and do it better then the opponent.
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