Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-21-2010, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrys View Post
Cite the exact page(s) that have info regarding the major issues with the game, timelines for correcting it, and addresses what both reviewers and players are saying is a major lack of polish and content.
That's totally unrealistic. Cryptic has a long list of things they are working on/need to work on and are no more able to put timelines on each thing than you are. All we need to know is that they've listened to the feedback and are currently working on correcting the major issues in the game (lack of content, server stability, bugs). That's all you, and anyone else needs to know. If you want more or are somehow upset that they haven't addressed every single one of your petty concerns, join a different reality.

Quote:
That's what a beta is for. Bioware is an example of not releasing a game until it is polished. Sure there are patches, not daily and they make sure the game is COMPLETE.
You cannot cite Bioware as an example for an MMO release. Give me a break. MMOs are a totally different beast than single player games. MMOs are never complete, and never polished. Wait until TOR comes out and you'll hopefully see reality and eat your words.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-21-2010, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrys View Post
ZenBrillig, Shingi,

Again, I appreciate the responses and I know that what you are talking about is in line with certain particular "adjustments" that they are planning on making to a particular game mechanic. What I'm trying to address is the need to get a massive DEV response (I think it is great that a player is compiling this on their own time, I'm not sure a customer should be gathering all of this together for the developer. In fact, they really should not have to) that counters what is going on now.

Champions and Star Trek are probably two of my most favorite genres as a kid. I grew up in the 80's and after playing pnp rounds of Champions while 5-6 of us battles through a mission with great fun, we'd probably head back and watch some old episodes and later the TNG. It is extremely difficult to bring these to the computer game arena, some say almost impossible. ST has tried it for over 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of "good" games. The rest are trash. Champions is absolutely massive in the game system itself and no one even touched it.

They need to understand that they bear heavy burdens not only in carrying the licenses but creating a polished, content-rich game that enlists the HELP and ASSISTANCE of the genre creators as well as the fans.

If they do this alone, they will certainly fail.
i know they've said they are interested in the idea of player generated content and are looking at how other MMO's are handling this before putting it in.

and yes, i agree that star trek is going to be an awful hard thing to get "right" in a game. hell most of the time its hard enough to get people to agree on what is "trek" in the films and series that were made!! (btw, sisko is the best captain >_>)

in that respect i think we can agree.

thing is, they have writers who've worked on trek productions involved, the later missions really do come across as something you'd have seen in the series, with concessions to the need to have us participate anyway, and having hit admiral over this weekend i've got one story mission left to go of whats in place at this time.

yes, they need more, and more of this than patrol/explore missions. and those patrol/explore missions need to feel more trek than MMO, but at its core its a good attempt at melding two ideals, trek and MMO's, and while it falls short in places, the core that it runs on is, to me, solid.

and this is where we differ, i honestly feel if this game can get past its early launch and do well enough to get to an expansion then the publishers and IP owners are more likely to release funds for a major advertising push.. a lot of sci fi gamers i know have heard of this game, but dont even know its out yet! others are waiting for the first 6 months to pass before looking in. i've put my chips down on this game growing into much more than it is now, if it gets past its launch.

my feeling is you're worried the game will go downhill due to the issues now, and i understand that, and i see your concerns and why you have them, i just dont share them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-21-2010, 02:05 PM
"Yep, we launched the game."

"Yep, we've had a few issues."

"Yep, we're fixing them as fast as possible."

"Yep, we're reading the threads on the forums actively and collating user wishes for possible inclusion into the game."

"Yep, we're still doing everything that we were before, in the push to develop a long-term videogame that will be around for years to come..."

What else were you looking for?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-21-2010, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingi
i know they've said they are interested in the idea of player generated content and are looking at how other MMO's are handling this before putting it in.

and yes, i agree that star trek is going to be an awful hard thing to get "right" in a game. hell most of the time its hard enough to get people to agree on what is "trek" in the films and series that were made!! (btw, sisko is the best captain >_>)

in that respect i think we can agree.

thing is, they have writers who've worked on trek productions involved, the later missions really do come across as something you'd have seen in the series, with concessions to the need to have us participate anyway, and having hit admiral over this weekend i've got one story mission left to go of whats in place at this time.

yes, they need more, and more of this than patrol/explore missions. and those patrol/explore missions need to feel more trek than MMO, but at its core its a good attempt at melding two ideals, trek and MMO's, and while it falls short in places, the core that it runs on is, to me, solid.

and this is where we differ, i honestly feel if this game can get past its early launch and do well enough to get to an expansion then the publishers and IP owners are more likely to release funds for a major advertising push.. a lot of sci fi gamers i know have heard of this game, but dont even know its out yet! others are waiting for the first 6 months to pass before looking in. i've put my chips down on this game growing into much more than it is now, if it gets past its launch.

my feeling is you're worried the game will go downhill due to the issues now, and i understand that, and i see your concerns and why you have them, i just dont share them.
Awesome post man. I see your point about the prevailing doom and gloom that is getting everyone more negative at the launch of a game these days. I mean, since alot of us have played an MMO or 2 or 3 in the past 5-10 years, our expectations are very high. That being said, I will definitely admit I'm biased in that I feel Cryptic's treat of CO was a "test" for me, and I WANT them to fail continually.... they just MUST learn from it and integrate their knowledge directly into the game. WoW has only survived because of that, the first version was absolutely horrid.

However I don't agree they are writing in the same caliber as all of the ST writers from before. I am honestly watching a ton of episodes lately. Mostly to get a feel for the stories themselves but also to get me out of this doom STO stuff. Stories like "Booby Trap" in TNG and 'The Corbomite Manuever" in original are not remotely present in this game. They gambled on doing a "big combat WoW-ish focused space/ground combat game at the beginning", and it has failed. We wanted ST in an MMO setting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-21-2010, 03:35 PM
well yes I'm sure this game isn't quite up to apr with professional screen writers but over all some of the episodes of this game have actually been better then some of the crap Trek's made over the years, don't get me wrong, I like trek, BUT...let's look at the facts here, trek's had the odd dreadful episode, even in the good series.

the fact is Andry's it sounds like you're wanting a type of game that isn't typically something a MMO can provide as a singulkar program, in depth stories with a complex decision making process aren't really how MMOs work, thats more a single player game application (I would BTW absolutly love it if cryptic once they had this game nicely refined, took the basic engine and produced an awesome trek single player RPG with it)) now they ARE working on giveing non-combat options down the road to STO it'll come with time. now if you want more depth to your experiance, you're absoliutly right the player base needs to provide that, it's called roleplay, there's numerous RPers in STO, seek them out, roleplay with them... quite honestly your "they need the imput of the fans" could be cynicly read as "cryptic needs to give me a job!"

as for it failing, I contest this remark, now someone on this thread earlier said this game is dieing, that's FAR from the truth, YES this game is going to loose some subs, it happens in EVERY MMO ever published, impatient players (many are WoWies) go to the latest game going "ohh shiny" and discover that the game at launch is bugged, and yes lacks the content of a MMO that has been out for 5 years, MMO development is an ongoing process. you shouldn't expect perfection at launch but rather look to see "ok does this have potential to get better over time" and no one can answer that question for you, (my answer is yes, but some of you may disagree with certin fundamentals about this game. )

as others have noted, the dev's HAVE addressed many things, and I will note BTW if you're still at low levels game game gets MUCH more intresting at higher levels.

anyway the dev's have responded, and there's a general outline for the future, weather or not it's too your likeing, well.... that's a personal decision only you can answer
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawkill View Post
Epic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-21-2010, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
well yes I'm sure this game isn't quite up to apr with professional screen writers but over all some of the episodes of this game have actually been better then some of the crap Trek's made over the years, don't get me wrong, I like trek, BUT...let's look at the facts here, trek's had the odd dreadful episode, even in the good series.

the fact is Andry's it sounds like you're wanting a type of game that isn't typically something a MMO can provide as a singulkar program, in depth stories with a complex decision making process aren't really how MMOs work, thats more a single player game application (I would BTW absolutly love it if cryptic once they had this game nicely refined, took the basic engine and produced an awesome trek single player RPG with it)) now they ARE working on giveing non-combat options down the road to STO it'll come with time. now if you want more depth to your experiance, you're absoliutly right the player base needs to provide that, it's called roleplay, there's numerous RPers in STO, seek them out, roleplay with them... quite honestly your "they need the imput of the fans" could be cynicly read as "cryptic needs to give me a job!"

as for it failing, I contest this remark, now someone on this thread earlier said this game is dieing, that's FAR from the truth, YES this game is going to loose some subs, it happens in EVERY MMO ever published, impatient players (many are WoWies) go to the latest game going "ohh shiny" and discover that the game at launch is bugged, and yes lacks the content of a MMO that has been out for 5 years, MMO development is an ongoing process. you shouldn't expect perfection at launch but rather look to see "ok does this have potential to get better over time" and no one can answer that question for you, (my answer is yes, but some of you may disagree with certin fundamentals about this game. )

as others have noted, the dev's HAVE addressed many things, and I will note BTW if you're still at low levels game game gets MUCH more intresting at higher levels.

anyway the dev's have responded, and there's a general outline for the future, weather or not it's too your likeing, well.... that's a personal decision only you can answer
The episodic nature of Star Trek (it was weekly show) is actually very conducive to this MMO. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Kotor all have finite storylines with heavy npc interaction and character dialogue. The heavy npc interaction and dialogue is something very much in the plans for TOR to make it more immersive. Games like Oblivion and Fallout 3 have an open exploration environment.

STO was promised and is supposed to be a combination of those methods (although they went very light on the voice dialogue). The supposedly deciphered the magic "ST Episode Formula" and integrated it into their Genesis system for creating content. This has not happened overall, while I have seen some missions that are very well made, the vast majority are kill x of y or get x of y scan: something they vowed would not be a part of it.

This has nothing to do with my personal feelings. There are plenty who have posted in this thread and thousands of others posting in others who are expressing similar concerns. You can't silence this just because you have a feeling that it is "bad publicity" or gives you a bad taste of how things are going. The advertising could not be worse, and it is only through criticizing the game at this point that they get better and survive. Otherwise, if we all go along and say nothing, with the failed reception by both the players and public so far, it will definitely fail. Licenses cannot save a bad game system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnagefiend View Post
Again, we all realize that this game was pushed out far too quickly.

With that said, it isn't in Cryptic's hands when to do that. You have CBS wanting results, and wanting results NOW.

This leaves the people you're bashing, the ones actually programming and working, desperately trying to keep the game afloat.

And hey, Champions Online is fun to me, thank you very much. It has its own stable fanbase.
If poor cryptic was forced by the big bad CBS and Atari to release early then why is cryptic advertising with being the mmo company that can and will put out new games every 2 years ?

You fool yourself if you believe that cryptic was forced, if you think about it you have to accept that putting out games fast and low on content is a basic business principle of cryptic as a company. Atari even stated that as a reason why they bought them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-21-2010, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yriel
If poor cryptic was forced by the big bad CBS and Atari to release early then why is cryptic advertising with being the mmo company that can and will put out new games every 2 years ?

You fool yourself if you believe that cryptic was forced, if you are honest you have to accept that putting out games fast and low on content is a basic business principle of cryptic as a company. Atari even stated that as a reason why they bought them.
this is funny because I doubt after CO and STO anyone will ever be buying a Cryptic game again. unless they know nothing about their poor business practices. i'll certainly be staying away from any future games from them and telling others to do so aswell.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-21-2010, 04:17 PM
What I find amazing it the shear massive number of people that can place here what needs to be done and how to do it. If you people have so much knowledge, why not just make your own or go get a job with them and then fix it.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:00 PM.