Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-22-2010, 12:54 PM
I've been thinking about it, and why not have the hypos do the same amount of healing (or maybe a little bit less), just spread out over 10 - 15 seconds? That way it's spread out a bit more and won't encourage sprinting into a crowd popping hypos, but also won't make them completely worthless. Alternatively, leave the current healing alone but make them give a short speed/damage debuff (basically the drugs suppressing your nervous system as a side effect); the benefit to this is that they could be used with minimal detriment when holding up a defensive position, but would be less useful when assaulting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-22-2010, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellandess View Post
Trying to be objective about a few threads on this subject. Firstly, I get equal amount of annoyance out of being one-shotted as I get joy out one-shotting others - but I make no excuses for thinking the expose/exploit mechanic is fantastic.

I've played a lot of ground pvp and my suggestions (along with some consolidation of others') would be (along with reasons):
  • Immunity to hold for 20 secs after being held by anything: if you survive it, you deserve some immunity
  • Reduce the amount of healing given by hypos: removes the Bruce Lee attitude and gives more value to science healers
  • Reduce the amount of shield regen given by shield charges: removes the Bruce Lee attitude and gives more value to engineer healers
  • Do something drastic with the split-beam, either reduce damage or take it out: yes we love it, yes we all carry it but there's a reason - it dps's like a single target weapon and targets like an aoe - it's cookie cutter because it's OP
  • ntroduce more diversity - capture the flag, defend the headquarters, defend the bridge, take/release prisoners something more than just arena: pvp'ers can get bored too
  • Remove ability to spam rifle-butt: martial arts/bat'leth is one thing, but rifle butt spamming is pathetic
  • Fix the queue; don't let the match start until it's 5v5: no matter whether fed or klink, 5v1 is ridiculous and if anyone else joins it's probably already 10-2 by the time they join
  • Remove expose/hold combination, if you are exposed, release the hold: being held is one thing, having to stand there and wait for your opponents cooldown on his one-shot weapon is just daft, this will stop people using their special until they can actually use it and give the exposed a chance to counter
  • Fix line of sight so it works: line of sight is line of sight, we're still shooting each other around corners and up ramps - you could argue lag here, but check for LOS at time of impact and not at time of firing and it's resolved
  • Reduce the rewards for losing: repeatedly rewarding mediocrity provides no incentive to improve
  • Fix character rolling so you can roll in the direction of your camera, not your character: double-tapping backwards only to roll INTO the enemy is just silly, first press should point your back at the camera, second press should roll you that way
  • Fix jump so that you either jump, or you don't - it seems the longer you hold the button in the higher you jump: making your character jump shouldn't be a minigame, if you want to jump, you should jump to full height
  • Introduce some kind of melee blocking to give melee a purpose: the sheer thought of not having any melee blocking is bizarre, going up against a bat'leth wielding klink and spamming rifle butt is non-sensical and beyond comprehension
  • Introduce running-collision knockback:give the Bruce Lee types something to do after reducing hypo and shield regen values
  • Introduce pvp stats history and rewards: pvp'ers are a funny sort of breed, give them a goal and they will aim for it - strange that
I can agree with that, though I am still not sure if I want the queue fixed, at least for the Klingons. When we Klingons are short on members, that seems to be the only time the match is really even and the Feds stand a chance

In all seriousness though, good ideas. The only hold I wouldn't want an immunity timer for is Stasis Field, but I would totally be game for a shorter duration on subsequent stasis attempts. Stasis Field is a great CC and quite fragile, so I really don't see it as being OP in its current state. Though I am sure it might feel that way when someone uses it against you smartly.


As for split beam, I love my split beam, but I don't think it is overpowered. I just think the weapons with single target specials are underpowered. More damage needs to be added to the sniper rifle special. Some of the other weapons need to have slightly better affects.

Viable weapons: Pulse Rifles, Stun Pistols, Split Beams, and those big blast assault weapons that are almost guaranteed to knock you down and have a really hard hitting regular attack.

Most of the other weapons are just so-so, and the big blast assault one could probably see a slight damage increase on its special.


As for melee, I can see the rifle butt getting a cooldown and actually doing damage. I wouldn't mind seeing it still being spammable but take away its ability to hold and just keep the knockdown chance. Its ability to hold is really the OP part of it. A four second cooldown might work as well, on top of the removal of the hold chance.

Making ground deployables slight better would be nice to see. I think the phaser turrets are where they should be and overlapping shield generators can be a real pain. The medical device is just useless though. The drones...eh...I honestly hardly notice them, so they probably need to be buffed a bit.

Tactical seems cool, but I never really see anyone play it like it should be, with infiltration and flanking. Most players I see just stealth till they see an enemy and then pop out and attack like normal, doesn't seem like they try to set anything up. Could be wrong...


I would love to see an outdoor map. Fighting in these dark stations is getting old, I want some sunlight and butterflies! A country farmstead map with fences, tress, rocks, and a little farmhouse would be pretty nice to have. A cave map would be cool, maybe on an Andoria type planet. A map with functioning doors would be pretty sweet as well.


I would love to see a PvP record, but I honestly think it would give the Feds a lot more reason to cry overpowered at the Klingons.


The auto-grouping is much needed and I would love to have it. It would need to be a system where you retain your out of PvP group though, so an arena map specific group system would need to be used.

Larger maps would be great, and an epic battle map where there are 20 Feds vs. 20 Klingons would be a ton of fun in a capture and hold type map. The queue system would need to be fixed for something like this to work though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-22-2010, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellandess View Post
  • Immunity to hold for 20 secs after being held by anything: if you survive it, you deserve some immunity
  • Reduce the amount of healing given by hypos: removes the Bruce Lee attitude and gives more value to science healers
  • Reduce the amount of shield regen given by shield charges: removes the Bruce Lee attitude and gives more value to engineer healers
Agree, except what I would do with hypos is keep the healing as-is and double the cooldown. I think it's worth letting us get a 100% heal out of it, just not every 10 seconds.

Quote:
  • Do something drastic with the split-beam, either reduce damage or take it out: yes we love it, yes we all carry it but there's a reason - it dps's like a single target weapon and targets like an aoe - it's cookie cutter because it's OP
What makes the split beam rifle dominant is not that stats, but rather, the maps.

All ground PvP maps right now are narrow corridors and 5v5 matches. That's prime split beam territory. If matches were 10v10 or 20v20, you'd see the split beam assault (not the same as rifle) dominate because it hits more targets. You might also see split beam assault come into style on wide open maps because the angle on the beam is wider, even though the damage is less. If we had a map that tended to result in close quarters combat, you'd see pistols become more in vogue. If we had a map that had people spread out to achieve multiple objectives, possibly resulting in more 1v1 chances, you'd see sniper rifles dominate.

So I don't agree with this point. Split Beam Rifles are simply the best for narrow corridors with 4 targets; the problem is that all ground maps are narrow corridors with 5 or fewer targets.

Quote:
  • ntroduce more diversity - capture the flag, defend the headquarters, defend the bridge, take/release prisoners something more than just arena: pvp'ers can get bored too
  • Remove ability to spam rifle-butt: martial arts/bat'leth is one thing, but rifle butt spamming is pathetic
Agree. The fix I would like to weapon melee spam is to make it do the knockback but that's all. No expose. No hold. That's fine for martial arts but not weapon melee spam.

Quote:
[list][*]Fix the queue; don't let the match start until it's 5v5: no matter whether fed or klink, 5v1 is ridiculous and if anyone else joins it's probably already 10-2 by the time they join[*]Remove expose/hold combination, if you are exposed, release the hold: being held is one thing, having to stand there and wait for your opponents cooldown on his one-shot weapon is just daft, this will stop people using their special until they can actually use it and give the exposed a chance to counter[list]
Agree. Basically it's ridiculous that exposes CAUSE holds. I mean if someone throws a 2 second hold on me and that causes an expose, fine, keep me held for the 2 seconds. But if someone shoots me with a regular old expose weapon and gets an expose, I should not be held for 10 seconds. That's just infuriating game design right there.

Quote:
  • Fix line of sight so it works: line of sight is line of sight, we're still shooting each other around corners and up ramps - you could argue lag here, but check for LOS at time of impact and not at time of firing and it's resolved
Eh. This is just One Of Those Things. You see that you have a clear shot while I see that I have ducked behind a crate. You shoot. What happens? One of is not going to be happy with the results. I don't think there is a perfect solution for this, short of inventing quantum computing where signals can exceed the speed of light.

Quote:
  • Reduce the rewards for losing: repeatedly rewarding mediocrity provides no incentive to improve
Agree. I understand that Jackelope thinks losers need a cookie but they're getting way too much of one now. Feds in particular just join for their dailies and don't care at all about winning. They just have to SHOW UP. That ruins the game for everyone else.

Contrary to popular belief, PvPers do not like regular 40-5 victories. It gets boring. Please make the Feds start caring about losing. If they don't want to play, fine, but I don't want to play people who don't care and don't try. That's not even a game anymore.

Quote:
  • Fix character rolling so you can roll in the direction of your camera, not your character: double-tapping backwards only to roll INTO the enemy is just silly, first press should point your back at the camera, second press should roll you that way
Eh? I disabled my double-tap-to-roll. It's in the options. Instead I have a button mapped to "Roll" (keybindings). So I push left and hit that roll button and I roll left. I find it's much better than the double-tap thing.

Quote:
  • Fix jump so that you either jump, or you don't - it seems the longer you hold the button in the higher you jump: making your character jump shouldn't be a minigame, if you want to jump, you should jump to full height
  • Introduce some kind of melee blocking to give melee a purpose: the sheer thought of not having any melee blocking is bizarre, going up against a bat'leth wielding klink and spamming rifle butt is non-sensical and beyond comprehension
  • Introduce running-collision knockback:give the Bruce Lee types something to do after reducing hypo and shield regen values
  • Introduce pvp stats history and rewards: pvp'ers are a funny sort of breed, give them a goal and they will aim for it - strange that
I never knew that about jumping. No wonder I was having a hard time jumping over those boxes after mapping jump toa mouse button. I don't think that button understands "push and hold" in the same way a keyboard key does.

I'm all for melee blocking. I basically think that martial arts and bat'leth should grant you some inherent knockdown resists

Running collision knockback sounds amusing but probably frustrating.

Stats are always good. I've always wondered how I rank in relation to other PvPers. I have to imagine I'm one of the top 10 ground combat PvPers in terms of "hours played" if nothing else. I love the ground combat and have spent more time leveling that way than any other way.


Incidentally, add to the list:
  • Investigate shield recharge. It's not supposed to recharge while you're being hit but sometimes it clearly does (see my second signature link for video proof).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Another note: While pistols are probably fine as they are, I wouldn't mind seeing them get the option to still be fired while knocked down. It would give them something unique while still retaining their shorter cooldowns.


I think Slamz is right about the maps pretty much dictating what weapons work the best. With a more varied sort of map, we would see a lot more variety in the types of weapons used. I still think that some weapon types are inherently underpowered though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-22-2010, 04:49 PM
/Agree, especially on holds. Exposes are a nice mechanic, but you need to be able to regularly survive being exposesploit'd at full health and shield. That, or not held while exposed. Anything that cuts down on the ridiculous science skill/rifle butt spam resulting in roulette-wheel instant kills is a boon to pvp. I cannot count the number of times I would ambush someone, whittle them down to a sliver of life, and get hit with a lucky expose and flounder helplessly for six seconds while they waited for their gun to recharge so they could instagib me.

The high density beam rifle needs serious love. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this thing, and I tried it for only one game (had a blue) before trashing it in disgust. It's charge shot, claims to be AoE but never seems to hit more than one person, repels but not knocks down, and deals pathetisad damage. I think this is the only gun I've ever got a flanking exploit shot on someone and not even taken down their shields.

The split beam may need some toning down, but I've found the pulse-wave and sniper rifles to be significantly superior in 1v1, 1v2 duels specifically due to their knockdown. Speaking of knockdown, interrupt lag on guns and hypos is terrible. I don't if this is intentional or what, but whenever I get held or knocked down (IE: All the time) when using a charge-shot weapon or a hypospray, I will fail to actually do anything (get any healing, shoot my target) but will still waste the shot/item. Same with snipers hitting walls and corners, if the target moves out of sight while I'm aiming, my character should not be stupid enough to take a shot that isn't there.

That's really the main advantage of the split beam IMO, full single-target damage with no delay. The multi-targetting is just gravy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-22-2010, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFury View Post
/

The split beam may need some toning down, but I've found the pulse-wave and sniper rifles to be significantly superior in 1v1, 1v2 duels specifically due to their knockdown. Speaking of knockdown, interrupt lag on guns and hypos is terrible. I don't if this is intentional or what, but whenever I get held or knocked down (IE: All the time) when using a charge-shot weapon or a hypospray, I will fail to actually do anything (get any healing, shoot my target) but will still waste the shot/item. Same with snipers hitting walls and corners, if the target moves out of sight while I'm aiming, my character should not be stupid enough to take a shot that isn't there.

That's really the main advantage of the split beam IMO, full single-target damage with no delay. The multi-targetting is just gravy.

Agree about the interrupt, it sucks!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-22-2010, 05:47 PM
i think maybe reducing the expose would go a long way. nothing drastic. maybe drop it by 1% or something... getting in a match only to get hold/expose locked the entire game turns me off of ground pvp
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-22-2010, 07:02 PM
Nice post.

A few other ideas I've been chewing over:

- Increase basic damage by 50%. This is to make us less dependent on expose/exploit to gain kills.
- Add a CTF mode or a Capture and Hold mode. Not everyone prefers all deathmatch, all the time.
- Make targetting less wonky. Why can't I TAB to the guy standing 10 feet in front of me?

This one would take a lot more dev work but I think would be more rewarding, both for PvP and PvE:

- Revamp the ground system from the standard EQ/WoW MMO model into an FPS. Yes that's right, an FPS like CoD or, more accurately, like PlanetSide. There is *no reason* why ground combat had to be WoW-with-phasers... not too many players like it as it is. This would take some developer man-hours but I think revamping dull ground combat into an FPS would definitely revitalize the game.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Keep em coming, folks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacti4-6 View Post
i think maybe reducing the expose would go a long way. nothing drastic. maybe drop it by 1% or something... getting in a match only to get hold/expose locked the entire game turns me off of ground pvp
Expose wouldn't be NEARLY as bad as it is now if it just didn't stun you. If I got exposed and just had a chance to get behind cover, I'd probably survive at least 75% of the time. As it is, expose = death about 90% of the time because it holds me in place for 10 seconds. Very frustrating.

I wouldn't mind reducing the damage it does some but the hold is the big problem.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:06 AM.