Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubung View Post
ahh 9.99 recurring. Makes sense. Its cus its cus 9.95 was mentioned as Voyagers maximum.
Technically in modern Trek physics (GEEK ALERT) true Warp 10 would mean you occupy all points in space at once.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-22-2010, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubung View Post
ahh 9.99 recurring. Makes sense. Its cus its cus 9.95 was mentioned as Voyagers maximum.
its also mentioned that in tng and voyager that 9.95 9s the fastest a ship can go before it start to shake it's self apart and even 9.95 has something like a 5 - 8 hour safe limit before the start takeing dammage (i remember a line that whent something along the lines of "if we keep this up much longer the ship will shake it's self apart.")
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-22-2010, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zilag
It would be fun to fly straight though, but mechanically without a warping load screen (like my example above) I don't know how you'd pull off the transit between sectors, let alone quadrants, which are long dull trips. Or do you mean that you can just fly off the edge of the known sector en route before say my 30 second timer kicks in, and if you look back you'll just see the sector off in the distance, while you're out in the local Black?

Because if so, that's an even better and kick-ass aesthetic idea--basically leave the instance but let the grid go wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off the sides. I really like that idea, actually...
Fair questions. Let me expand on my idea;

I was thinking that Sector space should be one large, continuous map. No 'zones' between Sectors because they smack of outdated game design. Imagine loading into your starship at Earth Starbase in Sector 001. You're in a drydock and need to ease your ship forward out of the dock. Or heck... play cowboy and just hit Warp.

So now, you're moved to the Sector Space map. Here, you see the same visuals we have now (which are pretty). You can fly in any direction on the X,Y, and multiple planets present themselves for adventure. If you KEEP going, you get into dangerous territory and your Tactical Officer warns you. But you CAN keep going if you want...

Eventually, you even get to the 'edge' of the map. That is to say, you don't hit a barrier or anything, but all known systems are behind you and you're literally in 'uncharted' space. A few randomly generated worlds appear in front and LOOK LIKE THE OTHER WORLDS... not just 'anomalous reading' floaty text.

You approach the world and get offered a random mission. Do the mission. Leave. You're STILL in unknown space and can return home if you want.

But all the while, you never hit a zone wall.

IS THIS POSSIBLE? - The best thing is, it can be done with the game that's in place now. All that's needed is to make the Sector Space map a single larger entity, and populate the edges with randomly-spawning openings to random worlds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-22-2010, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinetyNine
My warp goes to 11. It's one louder.
Well, why don't they make 10 the loudest and just move the numbers over?

Because this one goes to eleven.


That movie is awesome. I also like:

I love this guitar. It's got such great sustain. I mean, listen. Cant you hear it?

I don't hear anything.

Well, that's because I'm not playing it. If it was plugged in, then you'd be able to hear something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-22-2010, 12:08 PM
I agree with all of it, for th emost part.

For #2, I agree, I don't like the traffic control cop. At the very least, I'd like to see one of my own boffs (whichever one is in the highest ranking bridge seat assignment, ideally) instead. But even better would be to do away with the load screens altogether between the sector blocks and instead have a continuous sector map (not unlike the zoning in wow's world maps). I realize that's a huge change from a coding standpoint, and may not even be possible under the current architecture.

But if we must keep our loading screens, having my own boffs ask me when I want to warp to a zone, and having a warp-stars view of my ship would be much better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkjedi View Post
Fair questions. Let me expand on my idea;

I was thinking that Sector space should be one large, continuous map. No 'zones' between Sectors because they smack of outdated game design. Imagine loading into your starship at Earth Starbase in Sector 001. You're in a drydock and need to ease your ship forward out of the dock. Or heck... play cowboy and just hit Warp.

So now, you're moved to the Sector Space map. Here, you see the same visuals we have now (which are pretty). You can fly in any direction on the X,Y, and multiple planets present themselves for adventure. If you KEEP going, you get into dangerous territory and your Tactical Officer warns you. But you CAN keep going if you want...

Eventually, you even get to the 'edge' of the map. That is to say, you don't hit a barrier or anything, but all known systems are behind you and you're literally in 'uncharted' space. A few randomly generated worlds appear in front and LOOK LIKE THE OTHER WORLDS... not just 'anomalous reading' floaty text.

You approach the world and get offered a random mission. Do the mission. Leave. You're STILL in unknown space and can return home if you want.

But all the while, you never hit a zone wall.

IS THIS POSSIBLE? - The best thing is, it can be done with the game that's in place now. All that's needed is to make the Sector Space map a single larger entity, and populate the edges with randomly-spawning openings to random worlds.
Assuming that requires tweaks to the engine rather that more cosmetic changes, reread what I added before I read this second post by you to my original post just now, under Tweak #2.

What do you think of that model as a suggestion for the shorter term (but I would dearly love for all of sector to be one map, as well)?

The objects in the black can be incorporated to this, too, after that baseline is in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-22-2010, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBones View Post
and having a warp-stars view of my ship would be much better.
This is the one I really, really want if we could only get one of these in 2010 and the rest not till say 2011. Having a moving, animated travel shot of my ship in warp rather than pretty static images would go miles to make the universe feel bigger on warping.

Static = Hi, I'm a load screen.
Dynamic warping of my ship = HOLY CRAP I'M WARPING WHEEE, and I also disguised elegantly the fact that I'm watching a load screen.


Keep the static load screens for beaming scenarios for now, since those aren't nearly as common (that's a goose to cook another day).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-22-2010, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zilag
Assuming that requires tweaks to the engine rather that more cosmetic changes, reread what I added before I read this second post by you to my original post just now, under Tweak #2...
Not a bad edit.

As for the 'single zone' concept, I don't think it would be that hard at all.

Focusing on the first sector players experience (3 'sectors', Sirius and 2 others), we find a rectangular fish bowl geometry. Within that geometry space is perhaps 15 systems, a smattering of roaming enemies, and perhaps a dozen player ships. Each of these entities has two CRITICAL qualities to them; draw-method and position. Draw-method is handled entirely by your computer and doesn't need the server at all. It's just a graphic representation of the polygons, textures, and particles that make up that entity. The planets are starships have very low requirements. The second qualty is position, where the servers tell your computer where to place things and what direciton/speed they have. Nothing else.

There isn't even need for combat stats in sector Space.

So my proposal is, enlarge the first sector to be the entire map. Everything.

WON'T THIS ADD GEOMETRY? - Just push the borders outwards so they encompass the entire galaxy. This will add zero polygons, and the grid on the floor (hopefully a tiled texture) just repeats indefinitely. A larger space in 3D worlds doesn't mean more memory until you add things into that space. See below.

WON'T PLANETS ADD GEOMETRY? - Yes, but those worlds are about 3,000 polygons, tops. That's the resource alottment of a single character model in many of today's MMORPGS.

WON'T SHIPS ADD GEOMETRY? - Again, each model is only about 1,000 polygons. Today's game engines can handle 30 - 50 character models at the same time, and that includes animations. Static ships don't cost much at all.

MY SYSTEM CAN'T DRAW THAT MUCH - Fog of War. The map fades out already, so just keep that system in place.

Lastly... each planet would maintain it's active hot-point that sends you to another instance, just as it is now. Along the map edge, have random non-mobile planets appear that serve as 'doorways' to random missions. That way, a player feels like they're actually visiting a system... not just a floaty text.

Whew. Resting fingers now =)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-22-2010, 12:29 PM
Cryptic, please don't make the OP's suggested changes. I don't like any of them!

1. get rid of the blue gridlines and ribbon swooshes in sector space. I want to feel like I'm
in space, not in a flippin' galactic roadmap.

2. allow us to be on the bridge while in sector space. Give us warp view on the main view screen.

3. get rid of instance warping altogether. make space huge and give us more realistic warping. This combined with getting rid of the gridlines and such will make space travel more realistic and immersive.

Now, add these to the other 527,792 suggestions on how to improve the game and GET BUSY satisfying everyone's own personal desires for the game!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-22-2010, 12:59 PM
DarkJedi, while we don't know the architecture of the game, I'd hazard a guess and say your suggestion is unrealistic at best and impossible at worst.

In reality, the game is a single "shard" architecture. Single shard doesn't mean one server though. Likely the sectors are divided up over servers (and probably further divided up over servers based on instance). The engine is designed to take advantage of this fact and the fact that you zone into each new sector of space.

While having big, wide open space is awesome, it's probably going to be impossible with the current architecture.

All of this is theoretical of course, since I don't have the source code in front of me but as a professional programmer, I'd guess that's likely the case. Still, I do like your idea.

I've posted my changes for sector space before but here they are yet again :

1) Remove grid lines and highways. Keep tinting depicting area of control (blue = fed, red = klingon, etc.) but tone it down. Subtle but noticeable. Unexplored areas should be black, empty space.

2) Leave sector borders and sign posts.

3) Improve graphics of systems: make planets look like planets, etc.

I think that would do a lot for sector space and wouldn't require any major changes to how the game engine functions.
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