Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Some observations about PVP
02-23-2010, 11:48 AM
Don't worry this isn't another "my side is unbalanced" thread!

I like the tiered PVP system in the game currently. As I understand it you enter an instance against foes within your tier. This sounds great but I have noticed one thing that seems "awry" for lack of a better word. It would seem that as soon as you break into a new tier everything changes. Being new to that tier you are the minority. In my observation most battles will pit you against combatants who average +5 or +6 to you. Natural selection dictates that the weakest link makes for the easiest prey. When I play as a Klingon I can someone mitigate this by changing to a support role and using cloak. Decloak, heal, fire off a few rounds, recloak and hope no one took notice. Once I get about half way through the tier I am on more equal footing and can really begin to play.

(The following is not intended as a MY CLASS IS BROKEN comment)

In my own observation in playing I have noticed that cruisers appear to have an easier time with this transition. As they have a great deal more defense capability. Science ships also appear to hold their own though not as easily. It "seems to me" (yes this is an opinion and I am open to other points of view on the matter) that escort classes (BoP etc) are at the biggest disadvantage during this period. In general it would appear somewhat misleading, even though they are on the same tier a level 11 for instance is no match for a level 20 etc.

Have you noticed this?
What are your thoughts?

A second observation I have made is that often times I will join a PuG (btw I'd love to join a group of regular players) and a member of team will out of frustration of a perceived game shortcoming or in order to end the match quickly and maximize xp, simply run out into the enemy and die as many times as possible. On the Klingon side there is added incentive from the quest lines. I must admit a degree of frustration when a match is "thrown".

Has anyone else experienced this?
I don't know that they will be heard but has anyone come up with any creative solutions?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-23-2010, 12:13 PM
'A warriors true strength lies in his heart and mind' - Master Bra'Tac

If you are resolute and focused, you will break your enemies will to fight and THEY will be the ones lining up to fall on your sword.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-23-2010, 12:20 PM
Well, Escorts get killed fast for a reason : semi-seasoned players know to kill them asap, or they will run up 300k+ damage in an arena very quickly. In a set, balanced group there would be people to take care of the escorts. In a PuG, you wont usually be so fortunate.

As a T5 Negh'Var General I can tell you when I lose a match it's not because the other team had fewer Escorts, its because we couldnt kill the escorts due to teamwork. Pugs tend to just blast away at everything and self-heal through the damage. Without Extend Shields, VM's , Tractors and Team buffs, life is reduced to waiting for RSP to drop and then die(or run).

When my premade runs( on the rare occasion we have all 5 online), What I fear isn't Heavy Crusiers or even well built sci ships(at least now that we all run guns), it's escorts with support backing them up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4 Klingon PuG
02-23-2010, 01:08 PM
It does seem that recently (at least in my experience) that if a Klingon PuG runs in to a good Fed group, at least one Klingon player will fall to bickering, complaining, and the like. Sometimes after just a single encounter with the Feds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-23-2010, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxar
It does seem that recently (at least in my experience) that if a Klingon PuG runs in to a good Fed group, at least one Klingon player will fall to bickering, complaining, and the like. Sometimes after just a single encounter with the Feds.
The KDF side carries a few losers who are succeeding only because their teammates are good. Whenever there's a real challenge the good players have fun and the bad ones complain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-23-2010, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
The KDF side carries a few losers who are succeeding only because their teammates are good. Whenever there's a real challenge the good players have fun and the bad ones complain.
Exactly! Last night in T2, here we were, a random PuG, fighting against a well-formed Fed group of 3 cruisers, 2 escorts, and a science ship. We discussed target, opened fire, target evaded for a few moments, we took too long to take it down, a few of us escaped . . . and he quit the team and proceeded to suicide the rest of the match.

At least he didn't go on for the rest of the match about how much the rest of us sucked . . . because that's happened, too!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-23-2010, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxar
At least he didn't go on for the rest of the match about how much the rest of us sucked . . . because that's happened, too!
I have fought alongside Klingons that all flew around on their own the entire match doing pitiful dps and not supporting anyone else. Yes i have thrown around remarks questioning the dubious parentage of the other Klingons during battle. Sometimes it is deserved.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-23-2010, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
I have fought alongside Klingons that all flew around on their own the entire match doing pitiful dps and not supporting anyone else. Yes i have thrown around remarks questioning the dubious parentage of the other Klingons during battle. Sometimes it is deserved.
True, but just saying "you guys suck" when, near as I could tell, everyone tried to do their bit . . . ? Hey if you think my DPS is pitiful . . . tell me that, but I then may ask for some pointers. That doesn't seem unreasonable . . . ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-23-2010, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxar
True, but just saying "you guys suck" when, near as I could tell, everyone tried to do their bit . . . ? Hey if you think my DPS is pitiful . . . tell me that, but I then may ask for some pointers. That doesn't seem unreasonable . . . ?
That... is NOT the Klingon way...........

(but yes it's more reasonable)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-23-2010, 04:46 PM
I am seeing a trend form, where hull strength seems to over-ride all other considerations when people speak of PvP ship class balance. Shields, are also a concern, but fold so fast at high tier fights that they become marginal defense at best. This is consistent with almost all posts discussing problems with PvP balance, and is part of the problem with current T2 PvP since Klingons have no Cruiser.

My guess would be that this is happening because of large amounts of focus fire, particularly in the opening shots of a fight. This burns through someone's shields AND hull so fast, that they rarely have any time to react. Escorts in particular suffer for this. This, in turn, runs counter to Cryptic's stated goal of space battles being designed where players have time to employ counter-tactics, instead of being obliterated in rapid order. It seems that Cryptic is trying for a system where those who shoot first aren't necessarily the ones who win.

Of course, you cannot simply increase hull and/or shield points on ships, without causing some players to lose interest because battles would "take too long." Reducing the burst damage capability of weapons would have a similar effect. Many PvPers in particular seem to be short of attention span. I think this is part of why high burst damage classes are popular in other MMOs for PvP. High burst damage ships should have a place in battles, so I do not support removing or nerfing them. Of course, high burst damage is a relative concept.



So, here is the quandary: How to resolve the issue of ships (particularly escorts, but ships in general) being focus fired in to oblivion before their captains can react, without causing combat to drag on and become boring?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:37 AM.