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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-25-2010, 12:00 PM
That's a problem with any significant change, yea. If they changed traits or races thei'd have to allow people to adjust their characters, and pick different traits, or even a different race.


Quote:
Originally Posted by onaccountof View Post
There is no reason you can't play any character (Canon or Alien) you want to/enjoy playing, you are not "gimped" in any way by their traits.
Of course traits don't do all that much, but there are some traits that are better than others, and if you go alien you can stack all of them, if you pick a canon race you can't. Also the fact that the traits mean nothing really ruins races of extremes like the Betazoids and Gorn I mentioned.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-25-2010, 12:05 PM
I think this is a great idea.

Although I don't think we'd want it to go too overboard. Last thing I'd want to see is WoW race QQ posts like "So I have to roll betazoid to be a good healer? Fleet passed me up for a betazoid science officer because he is better at healing!! or No matter what I do Gorn players wtfpwn me in melee!! Theres no way to beat them!! They're so #$@## strong!!! Nerf Gorn Blizzard!! err Cryptic!!

If the devs could keep the bonuses toned down so that they're not all powerful I think this idea would work better than the current implementation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-25-2010, 12:42 PM
Well, I don't think that you'd have to roll a Betazoid to be a good healer, the Kit framework doesn't change at all just because a character has some additional support abilities. The healing Aura I suggested for Betazoids is specifically designed to not replace real healing. 5% health every 3 seconds means 100% health in 1 minute, that's not drastic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-25-2010, 12:50 PM
All 3 of my characters are alien, and I always pick the same 4 traits.

Astrophysicist
Efficient
Techie
Warp Theorist

There is no point, at all, in choosing a trait that is ground based.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-25-2010, 01:42 PM
Yup, that is the second part of the race problem. If you're not picking them just for the backstory you usually really have no reason to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Of course traits don't do all that much
Your words. They don't do all that much. So there's nothing useful gained by going alien and stacking four things that don't do all that much as opposed to picking a race you like and stacking two traits that don't do all that much.

The only reason to play an alien is ... you want to play something of your own creation that wasn't in the choices you were given.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-25-2010, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedryn View Post
There is no point, at all, in choosing a trait that is ground based.
8 Months, a couple of updates and possibly an expansion/adventure pack from now ... that may no longer be the case.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-25-2010, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Your words. They don't do all that much. So there's nothing useful gained by going alien and stacking four things that don't do all that much as opposed to picking a race you like and stacking two traits that don't do all that much.

The only reason to play an alien is ... you want to play something of your own creation that wasn't in the choices you were given.
You're wrong on two accounts.

First of all, minmaxing is huge in MMOs, and part of the fun for a lot of people. They don't care if the bonus is relatively small, they still want the bonus, and thei're going to go with whatever gives them the best bonus, so in STO they HAVE to go alien because all canon races don't get useful bonuses.

Secondly, people who pick their race according to what races they like from StarTrek might acctually want that races iconic traits to be decently represented in the game. Like I said in my main post, Betazoids and Gorn, two races that are so utterly underrepresented by the trait system in this game that their essence is completely lost from a gameplay standpoint.


Sure, you can play the whole game as a Bolian with an entire trait devoted to your corrosive blood that can only hurt Targs and Gorn NPC, but the trait is so terrible that there is no reason to ever pick Bolian just to have it. Sure, if someone was just a huge fan of Bolians they could pick Bolian, but even then, why not just make an alien character that looks like a Bolian and has a useful trait instead? For that matter, Humans get bonuses for their Teamwork and Leadership, so why do Bolians not get a bonus for their good natured personalities and outspokenness?

It simply doesn't make sense to represent races through an array of traits, especially if every trait that a race has naturally cuts into their customizability when it comes to picking traits.
Human "Teamwork" is a trait the same as Betazoid Telepathy for example, and you could argue which one has the better bonus. What's up with that? I mean sure, there has to be a certain balance between the different races, but don't you see how this is completely overstating the usefulness of teamwork and understating the usefulness of being able to read peoples minds?

Also Trill "Limited Telepathy" gives exactly the same bonus as Betazoid/Lethan "Telepathy", so either Betazoids and Lethans simply aren't better telepaths than Trill ii STO or they really screwed the pooch on designing races that acctually conform to StarTrek Lore.


The whole way that races are represented through traits is just flawed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-25-2010, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
You're wrong on two accounts.
I quoted your very own words. So who's wrong exactly?

Quote:
First of all, minmaxing is huge in MMOs, and part of the fun for a lot of people.
Min-maxx all you want. That +0.1 to accuracy from that trait you took isn't making a difference in actual gameplay. It's only in your head.

Quote:
Secondly, people who pick their race according to what races they like from StarTrek might acctually want that races iconic traits to be decently represented in the game.
Vulcans are logical. Says so right in their traits. Seems to work just fine as is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-25-2010, 02:57 PM
The problem with trying to make the races too much like what you see on television or in the movies is that the devs run the very real risk of making some races overpowered and others underpowered. By keeping the traits insignificant they have avoided that mess altogether.

The most common races I have seen (in no particular order) are Human, Vulcan, Borg, Trill and Bajoran. I don't see many aliens. Do you simply notice aliens more frequently because their appearances often make them more visible?
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