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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31 Sight/Reticle
03-10-2010, 03:03 PM
OK, I'm more of the middle-ground here. While I don't love ground combat, I do not hate it, either.

I agree with many of the points made here (camera tracking, avatar movement, sticky-targeting,) but for me the main issue is the lack of any kind of target reticle/sight. Trying to switch from one target to another when the "Expose" is in effect is pretty difficult by tabbing through targets, by the time you get to the correct one, the Expose is usually timed out. If I try to mouse-click on the Exposed target, I have to click 3, 4 sometimes 5 times, same result, Expose times out. This is after I can finally figure out where the mouse cursor is amongst all the action onscreen during the firefight.

If we had the option of a reticle, always screen-centered, that we could just place over a target and left-click to select, it would make it SO much easier to select and switch targets. This eliminates all the issues caused by having to use a free-floating mouse cursor to select targets. This type of reticle would also be great for interacting with objects (consoles, crates, NPC's, players), where you would still l-click to select and r-click to open the interactive menu, and double l-click to activate the default action. From there, it would default back to a free-floating cursor to select menu options, etc. until the menus are all closed, then back to the reticle.

This type of reticle view system also eliminates the tedium of having to hold down the RMB to enable look mode, as you'd always be in look mode. The RMB could be held down to enable a free-floating cursor instead, which would be used much less frequently.

This same type of look/target/interact system is used is a GREAT NUMBER of other MMO's and single-player games, and that is BECAUSE IT WORKS, and works well.

Of course, players should be able to retain the option of using the current free-floating default cursor system if that is their preference.

Just my 2 cents...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-10-2010, 09:59 PM
I loathe the ground combat in PVE on this game.

It would be bearable if the Away team wasn't so damn useless/stupid/liability. They can't even get through doors half the time ... Hell one instance they don't even make it past the first bridge.They get stuck on everything (how many explore the cluster missions in a base have you run through to have NO BO make it through with you). Then if they do finally get out they run through everything on the way and drag it to you. So then you spend the next 5 min fighitng crap you delibertly tried to skip because it is boring to fight. My tact officer used the stealth suit to scan things and walk out to avoid fighting.

The gun play is boring atm. 2 weapon swap 2 1 1 1 1 swap 2 swap 2 1 1 1 1 1. Which is odd considering the melee has combo's with finishers that have different atributes by mixing the two buttons for normal attacks. But then vs borg your melee char will run into alot of trouble with chain stun and assimilate. My tact officer went melee as I couldn't stand the thought of firing guns again.

PVP wise I can't comment. I have two RA 5's *sci and tact* and one BG 5 *Sci*. The fact I have never done any pvp on the ground with it pretty much sums up how much apathy I have towards the ground combat. My klingon had missions on the ground and chose to chain run space pvp like cracked planetoid, salvage and solor winds over and over. Infact even "The Infected" I have no real drive or want to do purley because I find the ground combat boring and clunky atm.

Abilites that trigger an animation that don't go off? Debuffs that you can't see on your team on unless you click them. No information on debuffs when you get them. The dispartity between a normal gun shot to a exploit attack special. There is more and they have been listed here.

What gets me is the space combat is enjoyable and fun, yet the ground is so unenjoyable it is almost like a completly different game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-10-2010, 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryxx View Post
OK, I'm more of the middle-ground here. While I don't love ground combat, I do not hate it, either.

I agree with many of the points made here (camera tracking, avatar movement, sticky-targeting,) but for me the main issue is the lack of any kind of target reticle/sight. Trying to switch from one target to another when the "Expose" is in effect is pretty difficult by tabbing through targets, by the time you get to the correct one, the Expose is usually timed out. If I try to mouse-click on the Exposed target, I have to click 3, 4 sometimes 5 times, same result, Expose times out. This is after I can finally figure out where the mouse cursor is amongst all the action onscreen during the firefight.

If we had the option of a reticle, always screen-centered, that we could just place over a target and left-click to select, it would make it SO much easier to select and switch targets. This eliminates all the issues caused by having to use a free-floating mouse cursor to select targets. This type of reticle would also be great for interacting with objects (consoles, crates, NPC's, players), where you would still l-click to select and r-click to open the interactive menu, and double l-click to activate the default action. From there, it would default back to a free-floating cursor to select menu options, etc. until the menus are all closed, then back to the reticle.

This type of reticle view system also eliminates the tedium of having to hold down the RMB to enable look mode, as you'd always be in look mode. The RMB could be held down to enable a free-floating cursor instead, which would be used much less frequently.

This same type of look/target/interact system is used is a GREAT NUMBER of other MMO's and single-player games, and that is BECAUSE IT WORKS, and works well.

Of course, players should be able to retain the option of using the current free-floating default cursor system if that is their preference.

Just my 2 cents...
what do you need a targeting reticle for? THERE IS NO AIMING, and your cursor works exactly in the context that you're describing. Granted, you may need to click the hell out of your target sometimes, but how would a reticle help you? It WOULDNT your CURSOR IS YOUR RETICLE. It's not the fact that you don't have a reticle that you can't select a target properly, it's cryptic's crappy software development.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-11-2010, 02:07 AM
I'm one of those freaky people who actualy likes the ground combat the way it is..

I love to watch people get vaporized especially if I am doing it.. after that I hear that little noise go off that signifies an exposed I then quickly find said exposed target and do my bestest to make them go poof..

to be honest although some of the holding is ridiculous I think its what people have done with the toys once they got into players hands. About the only thing I can think of is preventing holds from stacking so that they can actualy wear off.

In the end though as I adapt I found my own methods given my character classes to prevent many of them or at the very least avoid them.

I also discovered that tactical officers have this neato buff if they spec for it in ground that minimizes their effects tremendously for their entire group . I am not convinced that the entire problem lies with the system cryptic designed. I am pretty sure a great deal of the problem lies with the lack of experience many people have in seeing what people can do with proper ground skillpoints builds.

I'm dying for respec so that I can pick up a couple of missed things that would help my characters a lot.

In the end though I have to say that looking at the infected "raid" er whatever that is that its supposed to be. I can probably accurately predict that holds aren't going anywhere anytime soon.. stuns/holds stacking is somethign cryping really enjoys as a mechanic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-11-2010, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlamb View Post
I'm one of those freaky people who actualy likes the ground combat the way it is..
I actually really like ground combat too, but the camera controls are just freaking stupid. All character movement should be relative to the direction the camera is tracking, not the direction you were pointed when you first started tracking the target. The way the camera and movement controls currently work are by the far the worst of any game I've played. I think Cryptic actually tried to make them that bad.

My other pet peeve is that the checkbox to never auto-target objects ought to make it so you never auto-target objects. If I want to target a mine/barrier/turret, then I'll click on the mine/barrier/turret. If I'm tab-targetting or just pressing a fire key then chances are that I want to skip the clutter and target a player.

Along the same lines, if two targets overlap one another, I'd like to target the one I actually click on instead of the one in front. Mines/barriers/turrets/trash always seem to be a bit taller and wider than they appear when it comes to targeting a player behind them.

Basically I like how ground combat is supposed to work, but the implementation is flawed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36 Combat reticle
03-16-2010, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3jektus View Post
what do you need a targeting reticle for? THERE IS NO AIMING, and your cursor works exactly in the context that you're describing. Granted, you may need to click the hell out of your target sometimes, but how would a reticle help you? It WOULDNT your CURSOR IS YOUR RETICLE. It's not the fact that you don't have a reticle that you can't select a target properly, it's cryptic's crappy software development.
Mainly because 3/4 of the time, I can't FIND my stupid mouse-cursor amidst all the crap on the screen. I wiggle it about furiously or slide it to and fro and after a few seconds maybe I can see it within all the chaos, but by then it's usually too late to hit the Targ chewing my Boff's leg off or aggro the Swordmaster pummelling my Engineer.

A centered reticle is just that... centered. Never wandering down into the corner or resting over a window that prevents you from turning until you move it back into the viewing area.

As far as aiming goes, then yes, you would have to aim to manually select a new target, but it would be quicker to do so, at least for my playstyle. As stated before, this would be OPTIONAL, if you don't like/need the reticle, you could just stick with the free cursor, no harm, no foul.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-16-2010, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryxx View Post
for me the main issue is the lack of any kind of target reticle/sight. Trying to switch from one target to another when the "Expose" is in effect is pretty difficult by tabbing through targets, by the time you get to the correct one, the Expose is usually timed out. If I try to mouse-click on the Exposed target, I have to click 3, 4 sometimes 5 times, same result, Expose times out. This is after I can finally figure out where the mouse cursor is amongst all the action onscreen during the firefight.
Press 'g'. That will target the first enemy that is exposed. A second key that you should know is 'y' which will have all your BO's target your target. I agree ground combat should be improved. But check out all the keybinds in the game menu. You missed some useful ones obviously.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
03-17-2010, 12:17 AM
For me it's the movement issue. I shouldn't hit the W to go forward only to see my toon do a 180 degree turn into my camera. That's annoying, but even more so is when I'm not in combat and can turn on a dime. Combat starts and instead of a normal movement rate, there's this shuffle back and forth, side to side garbage. It totally makes adjusting my stance when the situation changes to more targets, fewer targets, or if I am getting attacked from behind, turning to do a quick knockdown to pull some distance is a nightmare.

Any game out there other than STO for ground combat pvp doesn't do this. Well, that I've ever played. From the age old Return to Castle Wolfenstein to ME 2, ground combat movement isn't this gimped and is crucial to survivability. Agility and placement is everything, especially if you have a weapon that uses a cone damage effect for multiple targets.

With the current ground movement in STO, the ground combat is close to useless for enjoyment. If they would fix the movement and camera issues, this part of the game would really take off on better levels of fun.

I would really like to know what they were thinking when they did the movement for ground combat code. Balance issues with the weapons and hitpoints and shields won't amount to much if I am forced to shuffle in an awkward loop that gets me killed because it's way too slow and manipulative when I want to spin and turn to address a new threat while engaged. Then my camera spins back and makes me dive forward instead of rolling backwards.... ugg.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
# 39
02-08-2014, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
Every review out there says the same thing:

"Ground combat sucks"
"Everytime I went to do an away mission I moaned and died a little inside"
"Ground combat is just a chaotic mess and completely unfun."

The comments go on and on and on.


Do you think Cryptic will revamp ground combat? And making it more fun and exciting? What do you think would take to "fix" it?
I Fully believe and support the fact that Ground combat in this game should Be Almost Exactly like the Combat in Mass Effect 3. Its a new age of gaming and the old MMO style is out. The shooter controls are as of right now weak tea. I love the Space Combat its great other than the fact that I cant flip end to end and upside down in space in the 24th century when we can do that now in the 21st century.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 40
02-08-2014, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commandokain View Post
I Fully believe and support the fact that Ground combat in this game should Be Almost Exactly like the Combat in Mass Effect 3. Its a new age of gaming and the old MMO style is out. The shooter controls are as of right now weak tea. I love the Space Combat its great other than the fact that I cant flip end to end and upside down in space in the 24th century when we can do that now in the 21st century.
You realize that this thread is 4 years old? Made even before the shooter mode was introduced? Don't raise the dead, leave the necro threads be. Mods, close pls.
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