Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Warp Core Training formula
02-26-2010, 10:23 AM
It's been known for a while that Warp Core Training provides bonuses to power levels when you have low settings. http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=101249 provides a very nice guide to power levels overall, and was part of the inspiration for delving further into the details behind it.

To accomplish this, I collected data on power levels at all settings for all skill levels of Warp Core Training, both with and without the Warp Theorist trait.

The resulting big table of numbers I observed follows. Top row is WCT bonus, which lists the actual power levels for each consecutive setting (setting equals power level at WCT bonus of 0).


00 06 10 12 14 15 16 17 18 20 22 24 25 26 27 28
-----------------------------------------------
25 26 27 28 28 28 29 29 29 30 30 31 31 31 31 32
30 31 32 32 33 33 33 33 34 34 34 35 35 35 36 36
35 36 37 37 37 38 38 38 38 39 39 39 40 40 40 40
40 41 41 42 42 42 42 42 43 43 43 44 44 44 44 44
45 45 46 46 47 47 47 47 47 48 48 48 48 48 49 49
50 50 51 51 51 51 52 52 52 52 52 53 53 53 53 53
55 55 56 56 56 56 56 56 56 57 57 57 57 57 57 57
60 60 60 60 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 62 62
65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70
75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75 75
80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85 85
90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 95


From this we see that there appears to be no bonus above a power setting of 70 or 75, and that the bonus seems to increase linearly the farther from 75 you are, i.e. is directly proportional to (75 - PS). It also appears that that the increase is directly proportional to the WCT bonus, which gives us a general fomula of c * WCT * (75 - PS), where c is some constant. A little fiddling around gives c a value of 1/200, and then rounding down the result matches the observed values on the display.

The question is then of course whether the actual internal value is rounded or not. To test this, I used a T1 light cruiser operating the standard issue impulse drive with no starship command (i.e. speed improving) skills trained. The formula for the drive speed under those conditions is 5.00 + PL * 0.15. Note that this is a simplified version of the more general impulse drive formula for this specific configuration, but can be easily verified by creating a new character and flying around some with the default ship and no skills trained.

For the test I used WCT skill 3 (12 bonus) and Warp Theorist (10 bonus), and a power setting of 50. By the above chart, we have a displayed value of 52 for engine power, while the formula suggests the actual improvement is 1/200 * 22 * (75 - 50) = 2.75, for 52.75 engine power. Running the impulse drive gave a speed of 12.91 - 12.92. If the power level was 52, we expect to see a speed of 12.8, whereas a level of 52.75 expects a speed of 12.9125. This shows that the power level does keep the decimal places, even though the displayed levels are always rounded down.


Summary:
For a power setting PS and warp core training bonus WCT, you get an improvement to your power levels of exactly:

1/200 * WCT * (75 - PS)



Comments welcome. I plan on posting more details on other formulas (like the general case of the impulse drive speed mentioned above) as I can calculate them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-26-2010, 10:30 AM
Had you read that thread through, Binkenstein has already calculated some formulas for Warp Core and Performance skills. I'm trying to do that with Efficiency, but I'm lacking enough data points right now. I'm feeling a bit lazy atm, and haven't put together a compare between your two formulas, but his is

Quote:
Right, Warp Core

Looks like the formula is:

Power = -0.005SP + 0.3527S + P + 0.13

Where S = skill points (as mentioned previously, this isn't 1-9 but the + bonus on the skill) and P = base power

New spreadsheet = http://www.filefront.com/15631457/STO-Power-Levels.xls/

Thanks to Kyuzo of Starfleet Dental for extra Warp Core data. It's also worth noting that Warp Core cuts out at 70, not 75. There's a little dip/bump on power levels just after you change them. Not sure why
Lt. Commander
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# 3
02-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reson
Had you read that thread through, Binkenstein has already calculated some formulas for Warp Core and Performance skills. I'm trying to do that with Efficiency, but I'm lacking enough data points right now. I'm feeling a bit lazy atm, and haven't put together a compare between your two formulas, but his is
The formulas are roughly similar. At a WCT bonus of 6 his values are 0.0038 lower than mine, increasing to a difference of .4944 at 28 bonus.

The difference at 28 bonus would actually be noticable enough that the impulse test I described can separate the results of the two. Something to do when I have a chance tonight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reson
Had you read that thread through, Binkenstein has already calculated some formulas for Warp Core and Performance skills. I'm trying to do that with Efficiency, but I'm lacking enough data points right now. I'm feeling a bit lazy atm, and haven't put together a compare between your two formulas, but his is
I've got a chart built for Efficiency power setting bonuses at 25 and 50 from ranks 1 to 9. But unfortunately it's with my Borg Captain with the +5 Efficient trait. I'm fairly certain it's similar to the SC formula. At with the +5 Efficient bonus the power allocation 25 bonus ranges from +1 to +9 (ranks 1-9). And the bonus for a +10 Efficient bonus is +3 to +10 at level 25. (Take with a grain of salt. It's from memory).
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# 5
02-26-2010, 01:34 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post Tiran_Diaz. It's good to see this in such a nice well-formatted table. I would be interested in seeing a similar table for efficiency skills and performance skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiran_Diaz
The formulas are roughly similar. At a WCT bonus of 6 his values are 0.0038 lower than mine, increasing to a difference of .4944 at 28 bonus.

The difference at 28 bonus would actually be noticable enough that the impulse test I described can separate the results of the two. Something to do when I have a chance tonight.
Didn't get to it last night, but did this morning. My predicted value at 28 WCT bonus is 53.5, while his is 53.0056. Using the described impulse test from my first post, I observed a speed of 13.02-13.03. The expected speed at his bonus is 12.95084, while at my bonus it is 13.025. This would tend to support my calculations further.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-28-2010, 03:39 AM
I can confirm the OP's formula, as feeding its output into my own weapons spreadsheet gives exactly the displayed damage/DPS values.

I can also confirm that bonuses such as Efficient Engines and the ship-class power bonus are applied after Warp Core Training.

One thing that's important to note is that displayed power levels round down. This is different to everywhere else in the UI, which rounds to nearest.

Edit: First guess at efficiency skills and I get it right, apparently: Efficiency bonus is Skill/300 * (75-Power). So at 25 power efficiency 36 gives that system 6 points, and at 40, gives 6 and two-thirds points.

So Warp Core Training gives 1.5x the benefit point-for-point of the efficiency skills, and to two or three power systems (depending on your power configuration) at that, so keep that in mind when choosing where to spend skill points.

I nearly fell off my chair when my first formula guess turned my entire "difference" column into zeros. ^_^
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# 8
02-28-2010, 06:34 AM
Has anyone created a "chart" that would suggest what the "optimal" values for effciency skills?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-28-2010, 07:51 AM
Shouldn't be hard to work out. Skills: The Numbers has a stat/100SP chart, and WCT is between 3 and 4.5x as valuable SP-for-SP as the efficiency skills in a purely power-distribution sense. It only gets a little complicated if you have skills which use the efficiency skills, (ie an Engineering officer)

If you're running around with your power at 50's, then WCT is 6 times as good point-for-point as the efficiency skills. Which makes taking WCT to 9 better value than putting a second point in your efficiency skills.

If you're running around with three settings below 75, then WCT is 4.5x as good point-for-point as the efficiency skills. Which makes taking WCT to 9 better value than putting a third point in your efficiency skills.

If you're running around with two settings below 75, then WCT is 3x as good point-for-point as the efficiency skills. Which makes taking WCT to 9 better value than putting a sixth point in your efficiency skills.

If you're running around with one setting below 75, please report to the brig for incarceration, you are to be charged with blatant violation of the first and second laws of thermodynamics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-01-2010, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBBle View Post
I can confirm the OP's formula, as feeding its output into my own weapons spreadsheet gives exactly the displayed damage/DPS values.

I can also confirm that bonuses such as Efficient Engines and the ship-class power bonus are applied after Warp Core Training.

One thing that's important to note is that displayed power levels round down. This is different to everywhere else in the UI, which rounds to nearest.

Edit: First guess at efficiency skills and I get it right, apparently: Efficiency bonus is Skill/300 * (75-Power). So at 25 power efficiency 36 gives that system 6 points, and at 40, gives 6 and two-thirds points.

So Warp Core Training gives 1.5x the benefit point-for-point of the efficiency skills, and to two or three power systems (depending on your power configuration) at that, so keep that in mind when choosing where to spend skill points.

I nearly fell off my chair when my first formula guess turned my entire "difference" column into zeros. ^_^
Yeah, I'm actually quite pleased at how simple many of the formulas turn out to be. Thanks for checking the efficiency skills. I guess the next step is a simple formula for the performance skills, and that will give a complete mathematical description of power levels and settings.

I also find it your comparison of efficiency and WCT training at a skill point level quite illuminating. I know there's been some talk about how level 8 and 9 on T1 skills are perhaps not worth taking, but that does give a motivation to dump extra points in WCT if you need to spend 100 points to get the next rank for example.
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