Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 fed tactics discussion
10-27-2010, 07:38 AM
i had a long (and painful) discussion with a teammate about staying at the spawn point as a fed in a fed vs. kling game. my point was that staying at the spawn point sucks because you can be easily spawn campend because of the power issue. his point was, that staying at the spawn point saves travel time.

i just want to put this in here to get clear about it.

feel free to respond, rant or derail
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-27-2010, 07:43 AM
If its a bad team you will get spawn camped.
If its a good team it could be an advantage.
Honestly I dont think its a good idea either way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-27-2010, 07:53 AM
I very rarely get spawn camped, because i follow 1 simple philosophy:

as soon as the PvP starts, i organize a team, and start rapping out the same old orders. in fact, it got them saved in notepad, so i can just Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V them into team chat.

the orders i rap out go along the lines of:

OK guys, to prevent spawn camping, we are going to impulse jump towards the middle of the map.
Stick together, with the escorts and sci ships in the middle, and the cruisers towards the outside.
all focus fire on the one target. as soon as the BoP's and raptors decloak, heal the one being injured, then switch targets to the BoPs and raptors, and kill them before they fly off and cloak for another alpha strike.

i may sometimes modify it, but i find the copy+paste technique i have works well for pugs, and it leaves me more time for smack talk. i prefer being the one under focus fire, because i know that if im not focus fired, it is actually gonna be too easy for me to knock off the BoPs and raptors in my little escorts- plus it makes it much more fun, and i know that my damage resist buffs i have are gonna mean that im more likely to survive than some other escort or sci vessel.


as a note, i call impulse jumping switching full impulse on and then off when your main buffed power(usually weapons) hits 50, and firing it again when it gets back to full. rinse and repeat
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-27-2010, 09:52 AM
Once the spawn point dribble has started, get ahold of your team. Just because you are presented with the respawn button doesn't mean you have to hit it right away.

As a klink you learn this when you reach a fight after respawning to find your teammate outnumbered 4-1. You can join him and die gloriously or wait for your team to regroup and allow the feds to die gloriously.

On the fed side, once you are up against your spawn point and everyone is dead or dying, tell your team to hold off and give them a countdown so everyone respawns at once.

Also, I will move off of a spawn point since it is a lame game to snap up the spawn dribble, however, if somebody spawns they're fair game. Call me crazy, but I'll give you a breather in the interest of an honorable (and less boring) fight and ask the team to do the same, but if you don't let me move off I'm going to engage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-27-2010, 10:02 AM
In Guild Wars there is a concept called timekilling. Star Trek Online uses a much more basic method of timekilling, since it lacks ressurection and a set interval respawn. Despite that more crude nature of it, the fundamental idea remains the same. Force the opponent to waste 20-45 seconds of the match walking back.

The basic idea is that if you can force an opponent to run back into the fray then there is a much wider window of opportunity to kill the opponent and press a significant advantage. The longer the distance from the spawn, the longer it takes them to rejoin the fight. Conversely, the shorter the distance from the spawn the shorter the window of opportunity is.

The numerical disadvantage of the team that loses a player can easily face an opposing powerplay which can result in a complete team wipe. Forcing a healer or support player to run back into the fray results in an easy extra 1-3 kills due the the sudden absence of heals. The same basic concept of killing off a DPS character means that the window of opportunity is reduced damage and reduced pressure on the healers - making it significantly harder for the opponent to spike out a kill.

In Premade vs Premade teams, you want to drag the opponent as far away from the spawn as possible for this reason. It is also a double edged sword, more risk for more reward. If you're in a group that you know can win the war of attrition, you want to pull the opponents away from the spawn because you can capitalize on the advantaged situation of a 4v5. If you're in the group that is hurting you want to stay closer to your spawn because you cannot risk a 4v5 situation to drag out a long time.

Spawncamping is merely the result of a complete rollover though. But when team A stays at their spawn and forces team B to travel the entire map to meet them, they are basically forcing team B to risk everything while they risk very little.

Some fleets like -TSI- and Lore don't worry about their distances from the respawn because they know they can outlast their opponents.

TL;DR - Spawncamping is the result of a complete walkover, in situations where you are spawncamped you would lose anyways. You have more advantage at your spawn than your opponent, making it a valid strategy to wait. In this situation, your teammate would be correct. Also, the spawnpoint does occasionally change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-27-2010, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Ramone
i had a long (and painful) discussion with a teammate about staying at the spawn point as a fed in a fed vs. kling game. my point was that staying at the spawn point sucks because you can be easily spawn campend because of the power issue. his point was, that staying at the spawn point saves travel time.

i just want to put this in here to get clear about it.

feel free to respond, rant or derail
The easy compromise is to just travel at top speed away from the spawn as soon as you enter the match. Not full impulse, just your best normal speed. This will put you 20-25km from the spawn when you make contact with the enemy, which is close enough for immediate reenforcement, but far enough for spawners to build some power if they need it.

Carriers change things a bit; when you see them the whole team needs to charge. After the initial rush the whole team needs to make a concerted effort to stay on top of the carriers. Using AOE to control carrier pets is sort of another topic, but if there are carriers are in the fight then your position MUST be based on where the carriers are -- you cannot possibly win if you do not move in relation to them.

There are two safe places for your team to fight carriers: <5km and >20km. Either way you need to use a lot of AOEs to stop the pets. When you stick within 5km of the enemy carriers you will end up hitting them and their pets with a lot of AOEs even if they aren't the specific target. It helps to have someone really focus on locking down one or more carriers, but even if a good player can completely lock a carrier, they still need the rest of their team close to heal them if they get focussed.

If you can't (or don't want to) fight on top of the carriers, you need to get so far away that they can't launch pets, and keep moving away every time they get in range. The carrier will still occasionally use full impulse or evasive maneuvers to close the gap, but they are slow enough that if you just keep running you'll reduce the number of pets they can launch, and almost completely stop them from using the carrier's own powers and weapons. You'll still need to AOE the pets a lot, and I think it's a lot harder for the whole team to kite carriers than to just sit on them.

Either way you need to avoid ever being 10-15km from the carrier. At that range they can be their most effective while you can't touch them.

The question of whether it's better to wait at the spawn or away from it is kind of irrelevant ever since carriers got buffed -- as soon as you see the carrier that needs to be the basis for your team's positioning. I'm really sick of seeing fedballs staying at their "perfect" position letting 3 carriers launch wave after wave of fighters at them from 12 km out. When you see a carrier, go sit on it and pop AOEs even if you still keep your weapons focussed on other targets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-27-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Ramone
i had a long (and painful) discussion with a teammate about staying at the spawn point as a fed in a fed vs. kling game. my point was that staying at the spawn point sucks because you can be easily spawn campend because of the power issue. his point was, that staying at the spawn point saves travel time.

i just want to put this in here to get clear about it.

feel free to respond, rant or derail
Staying near the spawn point is fine - just not right on top of it. 20km away works pretty well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-27-2010, 02:03 PM
i agree with faith on this matter if your team is getting camped it wouldent make much of a diffrence if your team wasnt getting camped. your team was going to lose anyways and camping just makes it end faster for you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian-null-07 View Post
i agree with faith on this matter if your team is getting camped it wouldent make much of a diffrence if your team wasnt getting camped. your team was going to lose anyways and camping just makes it end faster for you
Except that if the match started 3-3, getting two more players might change things dramatically, except that those two are getting hit with alpha-strikes as they load in and before they can activate any defenses.

When the spawn points were random, comebacks used to be pretty common. Now whichever team gets the edge early will win through inertia.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-28-2010, 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
Staying near the spawn point is fine - just not right on top of it. 20km away works pretty well.
Depends.. If the Fed team are dropping rapidly, the fight will rather fast drift toward the spawn.. Theres also a lot of people that will specifically go for the respawns - Theyre usually soft, what with 0 power and all.

I just team up, move to the center and hope my team follows the advice to follow.. I see this a lot less at VA level than the otehr levels (been levelling my new KDF toon (BG4 now), and have seen the Feds move to center in *one* game (where it just so happened to be a tough fight))
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