Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
03-03-2010, 09:09 AM
They can't even get the mail system to work properly and still haven't finished their primary marketing interface, the website.

I am losing faith...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
03-03-2010, 09:18 AM
I am usually apprehensive about pvp. However I tried it last night for the first time on STO and had a blast. First tried it as a klingon messing around and then tried my fed escort. I'm only a lc. The first thing i noticed was the teir. It went from Lt 0 to com 0. I was like i'm so going to get my tail handed to me. But that didn't happen.

As just a klingon in a tier 6 going from teir 6 to lc 0 i was getting most of the kills, only got defeated once or twice. Then jumped in my lc escort and went up agains even higher ships. The first mission the same thing occured. Just destoryed anything that came our way. The next few attempts i wasn't as lucky, one time going 6 kills and 6 defeats. The same reason, higher teir'd ships. This was the first time i encountered klingons who could just cloak in the middle of a fight and i stopped firing. However the point is this....

Who the hell cares. Omg it was a blast. The ship to ship battles, the lasers and torps flying. I have tried pvp in every game i played, eq, eqII, wow, etc. I hated it all. Thought i must admit my fav game that i play all the time is wwii online. However for the first time i didn't care about the end result. I just had pure adrenlin rushing fun. Even dying i was always first or second in the amount of damage i did. I guess i was lucky just before leveling to lc, i got a couple nice drops. Quantum torp's, quantum mines and bought a mark IV or V cannon. Putting out mad dps.

So why am i typing all this in a cloaking thread. Well because i noticed something. People seem to not like mines all that much. However what i started doing was just laying minds all over the damn place when the klingons cloaked. I laid the first 5, then timer would refresh then laid more. Other people started following suit. Another had photon mines. Between the two of us we had just about every available space covered in mines..

They seemed to be attracted to klingon ships even cloaked and had to come uncloaked to shoot them. Or even when they did come uncloaked they had tons of mines to deal with. So for me, i am now loving mines even though others seem to hate them. Can't wait to get my hands on the higher mines.

Doesn't matter if they work all the time or not. If i die or not. PVP ship battles is just plan adrenline rushing fun. I usually can't stand pvp and I had a freaking blast... It's all about the fun. Worrying about your stats or winning all the time, etc is just gonna produce whines and yells for nerfs. Just have fun, don't be a stat ho. leave the cloaking as it is.... Use better tactics, stick together. Hell i didn't eve know those people and i am not in a fleet..

It was just plain good old fashion fun for an old man.. Pvp in my day used to be pong matches on the atari.. woo hooo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
03-03-2010, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlagueStarter
Poor team.... Thats pretty much the definition of PVP for feds earlier in the game. (t3 and below) you guys can cloak sit there and talk strat pick a target and everything. check to see if its really a engineer in taht cruiser or is it a tact w/e. We dont get that chance. We have to just react when yall attack. Thats it. If that sounds like a good time to you come join the fed side and delete your klink and dont play klinks for a few months. see how you feel then with the very limited abilities we have to decloak you. Im not saying give me a button to press and all ships decloak. BUT FEDS NEED TO BE ABLE TO HUNT w/o having a f*cking organised fleet to do it. its ridiculous.
I'll just turn that around on you and say that if it doesn't sound like a good time to you then roll a Klingon. This isn't, nor will it ever be the kind of game where both sides will be equal in all aspects. The Klingons have cloak, the feds don't, and that's how it's going to be. If you don't like having to wait for the Klingons to decloak, then play Klingon. That is your only option.

Quote:
Some times the klingons are just baddies are underestimate the fire power of the feds. But you place 2-3 pretty godo klinks on a team with 2-3 rands and go against a fed team of teh same caliber and the klinks will know after teh first engagement (assuming they got stomp) who to focus down first the next time. Thier needs to be either enchanced cloak detection for feds and/or (no more science in a bop using lt.comm sci skills) MORE DIVERSITY amongst klink ships in earlier tiers.
Here's the thing... what you call a pretty good klink is not the same as what you call a pretty good fed. Klingons pvp ONLY, which means that a pretty good klink is actually a really good PvPer. A pretty good fed probably doesn't pvp only, and so is only pretty good. The random klinks are probably as good as your pretty good fed.

Any fed who actually IS any good will have a good idea who to focus on after the first engagement, or at least, who NOT to.

Oh, and BTW, BoP is the only ship that CAN be a science ship until T5.

Quote:
bop needs to be the escort.
We already have one of those, thanks.

Quote:
battlecruisers can be sci and eng or come up with a way to have science ships earlier.
BoP IS the science ship. They aren't going to make any more of them. Battlecruisers aren't till much later in the game.

Quote:
i think this would go a long way to helping make it more balanced for the people who ARENT in fleets. Who DONT play with organised teams on a daily basis. For now i think we need to "fix" the game towards the majority. And currently the majority of feds just plain suck. WAY to many tact. Not enough science. Thiers a fair amount of engineers.
They do suck. That's not our fault, nor is it the game's fault. It's their own, because they don't work together. You said it yourself, too many tact, not enough science. How is this in any way related to cloak? It's not.

I'm in a fleet, but I don't get to play with them as often as I like, so the majority of the time I PuG. Even so, the Klingons I get in with generally know what they're doing in pvp, and the feds I play against generally don't.

I understand how you feel (I have pvpd as a fed) but cloak has nothing to do with it. The problem here is that Klingons know what they're doing because it's all that they do. Feds don't, because they pve most of the time. If you want to have a chance, then do what we do. PuG, and if you find a good group keep playing with them for the night. Make friends. Get to know how to deal with different situations. There are plenty of feds who do, and they do a great job in the arenas. I've lost to my fair share of good fed groups (and some unbelievably tough escorts )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
03-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akirasani View Post
I've witnessed it many times. And maybe 20% percent of the time (and probably 90% of those times they were going to die even if they didn't cloak) *MAYBE* they'll explode. For example. A split second after the Klingon's shields drop it gets hit by 5 torps. Boom. Dead klingon. Now on the other hand. It take about 5 seconds for a klingon ship to fully cloak. But for 4 of those 5 seconds the klingon ship is immune to everything. So unless you hit it within that first second of its cloak cycle it takes no damage.

When you cloak you are not immune to damage, ever tried to battle cloak w/o realising someone launched a HYT from behind you? i went from 90%+ hull to around 20% from cannon and torps while cloaking, also i have had sci ships spot me while cloaked out at 7km and above, that was at T2 and i didn't see sensor scan being used.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peljam View Post
Little to no consequences? I'll echo whats already been asked...have you ever tried to battle cloak? It's a coin toss at best in combat. It leaves you vulnerable to damage during the 3 seconds (I think) it takes. It even leaves you vulnerable to tracking weapons or mines that lock on at the very end of the 3 seconds (again this is as far as I know).

So what ever torps that have been fired will cause damage. What ever beam/cannons will already have been taken out on the hull.

Also, if you have particle burst....just fire it the moment they cloak. They'll still be in range and you'll have an extra few seconds to pound them.

All weapons will keep firing on you for the full cycle when cloaking, you are correct about torps fired during the 3 seconds for cloak to engage, and if charged particle burst hits you when cloaking it auto decloaks you and starts the CD on it, only time i ever tried battle cloak and survived, i was at 4% hull and score was 14-14,so i flew behind an asteroid and cloaked, after we won all of the feds QQ'd about me cloaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peljam View Post
You can spawn camp without cloak. Again, a starting arena allowing players to organise and spawn in peace would eliminate that. Punish the players who do it, not the players who use the ability properly.

As for one side always attacking and the other always defending - it is possible to be a proactive fed player and hunt down cloaked vessels. It just takes organisation.


I like the idea of a starting area which is protected from the opposing side so you can gather the full team to team up and plan tactics.

A well prepared fed team can set one person to play "bait" to lure klinks out, which i have seen done playing as both fed and klink, sending the bait to 6-7km ahead of the rest so a quick full impulse/EM to bring you into healing range and firing range of the klinks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
03-03-2010, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlagueStarter
I understand that cloak is a part of klingon lore/canon. BUT i think it is very unfair that they can sit cloaked in a 5v5 and wait for 4 ppl to join the pvp before coming out of cloak to fight. ALSO you need to fix your que's. it shouldnt let one side get 7-8 ppl up on a team WHEN NO ONE IS LEAVING. i mean ffs i ***** the entire klingon team in my escort comm5 and then they all stay cloak for 5 minutes waiting on more ppl to come or just to grief me. slap a timer on it or something. and also i understand we should have to skill to detect it. but i dont wanna skill a science skill when i am limited on science skills to BEGIN with. give tact and eng both a skill to detect it.
It is my understanding you can get a science officer when the appropiate skill to detect cloaked ships can you not?As it is,BOP can get ***** in a straight up fight.My concern isnt the cloaking for the Klingons since the battlecloak does have a timer on it ,and against a Fedball is quite useless since somone has that particular ability in the Fedball.I am wondering about the timers for the Klingons when firing their weapons.But i will wait until im at end game to pass judgement on that.Cloaking is not a get out of a sticky situation for free card.You still take damage from torps and phaser fire launched before you cloaked.Sometimes it works , sometimes not.
As far a spawn raping goes ,put some of those turrets around spawn points with a 12k range insta kill.that will stop spawn camping in its tracks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
03-03-2010, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMS View Post
As far a spawn raping goes ,put some of those turrets around spawn points with a 12k range insta kill.that will stop spawn camping in its tracks.
Eek. I could see this ending in some really shady gameplay. The only way something like this could even be half-way decent is if the kills from the turrets did not count, otherwise I could see both sides dragging the fights to the spawn points for the instakills -- I'm not even sure making them not count would stop this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
03-03-2010, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlagueStarter
Ok Mr. KickAss. How can we hunt? Spell it out. how much teamwork will it take. witha bunch of randoms is it possible? im saying cryptic messed up the balance and tried to fix it by nerfing klinks shields/hulls back to the stoneage b4 game even hit cb. Cmon if its SOOOOOO easy for teh feds. How do we do it? w/o organiztion above and beyond your avg klink players.

And tbh with the way the game currently is in T4 i dont even pvp unless i have to. I'm currently looking for the right fleet for me but No telling if/when ill find one that will make me want to pay to play with NO end game content for either side other than pvp. Whether its coming or not I have learned not to trust what devs say. Proof or it didnt/doesnt happen is my stand towards devs.
Well as has been mentioned there's the hunting with sensor scan.

I can think of how to set a trap with Charged Particle Burst. Let the Klingons attack, buff/heal the ship that they attack (usually an escort or science ship) so they survive the alpha attack. Concentrate your fire on their vulnerable ship (as has been pointed out the ship leading the charge might not be the one you want to focus on). Quite quickly the ship you're all firing on is going to either die or want to cloak. If it cloaks fire particle burst, it'll pop out, and you've got yourself and easy and quick kill.

I've seen it done, done it and had it done to me. You just need to be geared for pvp. You need to be able to deal damage as well as heal/prevent it in your team. My PVE Lieutenant Science officer has jam sensors and particle burst. My PVP science officer on the other hand has extend shields(or is it science team?) and particle burst. My engineer has engineering team as well. So I can heal shields and hull in myself and others, pop people out of cloak if they're within 10km and with my tactical skills cause a lot of damage is a short space of time.

Possible with a bunch of randoms? Definately. Would be easier if Fed ships had a chance to talk for a minute or two in safety but it's not impossible. Can you guarentee that everyone will do their part and play along? Nope, but not only is that an issue for the Klingon side, if it's that big a deal then don't play PUG's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlagueStarter
BUT FEDS NEED TO BE ABLE TO HUNT w/o having a f*cking organised fleet to do it. its ridiculous.

Edit: (typos) What i am saying about klingon ships is they need to make them similar to feds. now b4 you rage read more.
bop needs to be the escort.
battlecruisers can be sci and eng or come up with a way to have science ships earlier.
i think this would go a long way to helping make it more balanced for the people who ARENT in fleets. Who DONT play with organised teams on a daily basis. For now i think we need to "fix" the game towards the majority. And currently the majority of feds just plain suck. WAY to many tact. Not enough science. Thiers a fair amount of engineers.
Not picking on you but this bothered me a bit. First of all, you don't need to be in a organised fleet to do it. You can do it in a PUG. Just equip yourself properly and talk to the other people there. None of my toons are part of a fleet and I don't plan on joining any at the moment. Yet my win rate on bother the Federation and Klingon side is easily above 50%. I play nothing but PUG's. Oh and my main Fed toon is a tactical officer. I can steal heal and pop people out of cloak despite being a glass cannon.

As for the rest it seems like you're suggesting instead of using the skills that are already there and can already be used to counter cloak that the devs should just gut the character of the Klingon faction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randompeon View Post
All weapons will keep firing on you for the full cycle when cloaking, you are correct about torps fired during the 3 seconds for cloak to engage, and if charged particle burst hits you when cloaking it auto decloaks you and starts the CD on it, only time i ever tried battle cloak and survived, i was at 4% hull and score was 14-14,so i flew behind an asteroid and cloaked, after we won all of the feds QQ'd about me cloaking.

I like the idea of a starting area which is protected from the opposing side so you can gather the full team to team up and plan tactics.

A well prepared fed team can set one person to play "bait" to lure klinks out, which i have seen done playing as both fed and klink, sending the bait to 6-7km ahead of the rest so a quick full impulse/EM to bring you into healing range and firing range of the klinks.
Ah thanks. I wasn't sure about the weapons.

I like cloaking behind asteroids or other cover if I can too. I think it goes to show just how much of a last ditch roll of the dice it is if you do it in the open.

The starting arena idea has been kicking around for a while. It's certainly not original on my part I'm just suprised it wasn't introduced to begin with.

The bait idea's a good one, and I've seen it done a fair few times. An alternative would perhaps to have two ships with particle burst head to either side of the group, ideally between 10-15km apart and then fire them both at the same time. It's a risky move considering the cool down but it would cover a big area and pop out any Klingons getting too close to the group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmvor
So why am i typing all this in a cloaking thread. Well because i noticed something. People seem to not like mines all that much. However what i started doing was just laying minds all over the damn place when the klingons cloaked. I laid the first 5, then timer would refresh then laid more. Other people started following suit. Another had photon mines. Between the two of us we had just about every available space covered in mines..

They seemed to be attracted to klingon ships even cloaked and had to come uncloaked to shoot them. Or even when they did come uncloaked they had tons of mines to deal with. So for me, i am now loving mines even though others seem to hate them. Can't wait to get my hands on the higher mines.

Doesn't matter if they work all the time or not. If i die or not. PVP ship battles is just plan adrenline rushing fun. I usually can't stand pvp and I had a freaking blast... It's all about the fun. Worrying about your stats or winning all the time, etc is just gonna produce whines and yells for nerfs. Just have fun, don't be a stat ho. leave the cloaking as it is.... Use better tactics, stick together. Hell i didn't eve know those people and i am not in a fleet..

It was just plain good old fashion fun for an old man.. Pvp in my day used to be pong matches on the atari.. woo hooo.
Glad you like pvp. It's not about winning or losing, it's the fun involved! You seem to have got that! I wish more people would. I once said good game over zone chat after losing a pretty tight capture and hold game (was within . 200 points I think). I got reply back, from someone on my team, just staying 'No' . I'm guessing without the win it wasn't fun for them but for me the drawn out fight, the lead swapping back and forth and it not being clear till the very end was great fun.

Dropping mines is a reasonable tactic. Cuts off some avenues of entry/escape and can make people think twice about getting close. My only issue with mines was that if you have an entire team spamming them it can make it hard to actually target ships, at least from a distance. But then I thought...hey, that's fair enough It would be harder to target a hunk of metal if it was surrounded by lots of other bits. So I'm fine with that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
03-03-2010, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlagueStarter
Poor team.... Thats pretty much the definition of PVP for feds earlier in the game. (t3 and below) you guys can cloak sit there and talk strat pick a target and everything. check to see if its really a engineer in taht cruiser or is it a tact w/e. We dont get that chance. We have to just react when yall attack. Thats it. If that sounds like a good time to you come join the fed side and delete your klink and dont play klinks for a few months. see how you feel then with the very limited abilities we have to decloak you. Im not saying give me a button to press and all ships decloak. BUT FEDS NEED TO BE ABLE TO HUNT w/o having a f*cking organised fleet to do it. its ridiculous.

Some times the klingons are just baddies are underestimate the fire power of the feds. But you place 2-3 pretty godo klinks on a team with 2-3 rands and go against a fed team of teh same caliber and the klinks will know after teh first engagement (assuming they got stomp) who to focus down first the next time. Thier needs to be either enchanced cloak detection for feds and/or (no more science in a bop using lt.comm sci skills) MORE DIVERSITY amongst klink ships in earlier tiers. i dont care buff the klinks hulls/shields (altho stick to teh canon if they get to use the cloak like they do currently with weak rear/side shields). We have to wait for you to attack then pray we can heal your target enough to stomp your team. thats the definition of pvp for the feds. Personalyl as soon as my free 30 days are up im going to wait for afew months checking the updates etc... Something needs to happen to change this because currently i wont stay entertained with this game longer than 2-3 months TOPS.

Edit: (typos) What i am saying about klingon ships is they need to make them similar to feds. now b4 you rage read more.
bop needs to be the escort.
battlecruisers can be sci and eng or come up with a way to have science ships earlier.
i think this would go a long way to helping make it more balanced for the people who ARENT in fleets. Who DONT play with organised teams on a daily basis.For now i think we need to "fix" the game towards the majority. And currently the majority of feds just plain suck. WAY to many tact. Not enough science. Thiers a fair amount of engineers.

this needs to happen so when you guys come out of cloak we know who the dpsers are. And if the klinks need some shield buffs/hull buffs then so be it. But just like with feds. escorts shouldnt expect to live longer than maybe 45 seconds atm w/o good support. (and thats being generous)
Oh thats right lets fix cloak by adjusting the bop so it can't use science bo's,total rubbish.You want to see the BOP more like escorts yeah thats DIVERSITY right there.

Who cares about giving klingons somethng in the lower tiers.

i think this would go a long way to helping make it more balanced for the people who ARENT in fleets. Who DONT play with organised teams on a daily basis

Making the game more ballanced for people NOT in fleets,OMG,this is an mmo.Most klingons in t5 go in as groups,the majority of people playing klingons play them beacuse they want to pvp and have probably been pvp based in other games.
Great idea lets nerf klingons to help the fed players that are poor at pvp maybe,arn't in fleets and who dont play in groups so they have a chance.

You sir want to nerf klingons beacuse they group and generally are more organised so the people on the fed side that don't have more of a chance,people like you KILL mmo's with you'r carbare attitude.What total utter **** you speak.

I wrote this wthout reading what Sam_Charette wrote to you in reply Plague.Funny how he says the same thing i do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
03-03-2010, 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasel
The BS about cloak is the safety to pick your targets and coordinate something the Feds rarely get to do. On top of that pre buffing and being at full power after decloaking is the problem.
.
Have ya -watched- the show?! The Klingons and Romulans do this kind of planning all the time while cloaked. Heck, so does the crew of the Defiant.

Cloak != Invincible

Not even close... One solid primary focus and we're toast, as we fall like dominos. Our shields are horrible, and our hulls are worse.

I've gotten to Commander 4 in Fed and Commander 3 in Klingon. I've played both sides, and both are, IMHO, equally likely to go on 9-win streaks, or 9-win losses. It's the tactics that make the difference.

I have (regularly) been on Klingon teams where we cloak about 9km off, have a primary, secondary, and even tertiary all planned out, we adhere to our focus fire strategy, and the Fed's promptly proceed to make a shambles of our grand design in short order.

Complaining about cloak is absurd. The game is balanced just fine. I've been on roughly equal sides of kicking arse and getting mine handed to me on either side--as I'm sure have most players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
10-31-2010, 05:03 AM
No special abilities should be visible to the opposing team.

It's like them having a spy on the ship letting them know what you're about to do.
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