Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
So i've been grinding hard, only picking skills I would think would be good for a carrier. I play an engineer and was planning on fitting it for beam boat, with as much tank and fleet support I could grab...

Needless to say my t4 BoP out-performs my carrier in every way managable.

Now there's a lot of hate on the carrier and the "exploit" about multiple pets. I have 3 things to say about that.
1. There are so many counters to the mobs of critters it's not funny, any aoe will drop them all in one volley.
2. I would be glad if the exploit was fixed so that we had some meaningful choice of which to pick, which only will work in conjunction with #3.
3. These deployable ships need to actually be useful, they have about 3k armor and maybe 1k shields, they drop in one volley to any ship, and they don't produce enough damage to really even compare to an extra weapon slot on the carrier(keep in mind I'm talking a single wave not the exploited all waves).

Carriers I would imagine have the role of support, right now that role is only fulfilled in groups in pve. Irregardless of the various bugs that come with the carrier its grosely under-powered. Sure you get 3 of em together using extend shields and whatnot they stay alive forever, guess what so does any ship who carries extend shields can keep each other alive...its irrelevant to carriers. The rate of turn on carriers is so bad you can't use any cone shaped weapons so the carrier having only 6 slots (3fwd 3aft) the dps is low. Now since this is the only "true" science ship for carriers you would think that its advantage would be science.

However the BoP out-performs the science the carrier can do any day of the week? why because its a big very slow turning hulk of metal, short of attempting a hull tank it really just doesn't do anything for the field that any other klingon ship can't do better, short of lag and make feds think its godly with its spam of fighters that do really nothing more then tickle, or kill the feds that don't realize that any aoe can wipe them out.

My suggestions(not necessairly all of them need to apply but are more of a list of ideas):
1. Fix the hanger bug
2. Increase the survivability and potency of the various fighter wings, give them more meaningful choices between the 4 types.
3. It's supposed to be a science ship so focus on it more, give the 2nd science BO a 3rd slot.
4. The ship's advantage is a massive hull, give it something worthwhile to do with that hull, since armor tanking is not really feasible give the carrier a native 15% resists acrossed the board, not any higher.
5. It would be nice if the turn rate stayed the same, but as an adjustment to science ships(and maybe do this to fed science ships too) automatically increase the cones by 50% when flying a science ship in t5.

All honesty I was very dissapointed overall. All the hype on the forums about nerfing carriers they are overpowered in groups blah blah blah. Soon as I get into one and fit it up with blue gear right off the bat i've never seen anything die so quickly, and be so useless in a pvp match. It has no offensive capabilities that any other ship can't do better, its science is useless due to turn rate, and the hangers, even not-fixed don't really provide any additional bonus other then time wasted killing them instead, any aoe torp spread or rift 3 or shockwave will just demolish them like nothing happened. Any smart fed player cleans house with em before they can even begin to become remotly effective.

I've seen posts about gee you can fire 9 torps at once, yeah those torps are about 1/4th the damage of a regular torpedo, my beams do more damage then those torps off the fighters(for argument sake my photons hit for 3500 to a player the torps off those ships against hull are only about 900...do the math).

Anyway just sharing in my frustrations. Not trying to make the carrier overpowered but it has no true effective role, its just there for flash and dance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-27-2010, 07:40 PM
I came to the similar conclusion after trying out a carrier. Pets are useless, and do hardly any damage. It has absolutely horrific turning rate, I mean just unbearable. 6 weapon slots make it far inferior to our cruiser. People who fly them rely on FPB as their offensive weapon. I refused to just sit there and let the FPB do the damage. Our top cruiser looks better, turns better, has better FP and can survive just as long.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-27-2010, 07:51 PM
Yer.. Cos doing top damage every match and rarely ever dying is something i really hate.....

You have to play a carrier differently. Mine is a proper science vessel firing off electronic jiggery-pokery left right and centre.

I'm guessing you played around in your carrier for about 2-3 matches and threw your toys out of the pram about it being hard to fly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-27-2010, 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
Yer.. Cos doing top damage every match and rarely ever dying is something i really hate.....

You have to play a carrier differently. Mine is a proper science vessel firing off electronic jiggery-pokery left right and centre.

I'm guessing you played around in your carrier for about 2-3 matches and threw your toys out of the pram about it being hard to fly.
It isn't hard. It is stupid. Abilities you use on carrier are out of line. VM+FP is not how I want to win or PvP. If you enjoy them, good for you. I prefer an in-your-face ship with lots of guns.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-27-2010, 08:10 PM
I disagree. The alpha strike of the pets is actually pretty good. The BOPs are relatively hard to kill since they will battle cloak, though their DPS is pretty random. The fighters are kind of crappy but they make a nice distraction. I've been doing top chart DPS as a carrier, most of it coming from the pets.

Not sure it'll be worth much once they nerf it (if they nerf it). The spam they send out by swapping modules isn't all that overpowered in my opinion -- as long as you keep the carrier in combat he can't switch modules so he's stuck with whatever 2 he had loaded, so 1 on 1, kill his stuff, then kill him. (Normally the philosophy of the MMORPG is to "kill the pet owner and ignore the pets" but in this case if you kill the pets, the owner can't resummon most of them and he's easy pickings).

I loaded my carrier up with Jam Sensors and Viral Matrix -- basically things to force people to stop shooting me -- and focus on debuffing people and getting my minions to kill them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-27-2010, 08:11 PM
Incidentally, a real problem with the carrier is the inability to see minion health.

Even if I'm playing it "straight" and launching, say, 2 BOPs, when one blows up I have no way of knowing which one that was and it blows my cooldown to try and launch another one whether it works or not.


They'll have to fix that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-27-2010, 08:12 PM
I use a carrier, and I love it.

It is however an extremely different playstyle to get used to after playing the other Klingon ships. It is an effective ship, but take it from me, you have to pretty much forget everything you think you know about space combat, and start over.

As for the 'bug' with the support ships, it is debatable. It is not good enough to just fix the obvious bug of being able to deploy them all at once. The reality is most of them are not very good at all.

Syphons: All these guys do is lower the power levels of your enemy. While that may sound handy, these pets have two critical problems. Firstly, they are always the first to die. You will use them on one enemy, and they will be gone. With a 1 minute recast, these pets are simply not worth using on their own. Currently, they are just nice to throw in with the rest of your swarm

These also suffer from some kind of pathing problem. I often see these guys just stop. For no apparent reason, they will just stop in transit, and just sit there in their little clump, with no way to get them moving again.

Repair Drones: Another pet not very useful on their own. The reality of these pets is that they only repair you, never your allies. They only repair your shields, not your hull. And lastly, their repair effect is very small. You really need all of them out to really notice a difference. Even then, at T5, enemy players can eat through your shields absurdly fast. Again, these pets are nice to throw out with the rest of the swarm, but really not very good on their own.

Bird of Prey: These two are great damage dealers. However, they are slow as mud. They are similar to the newbie Bird of Prey, with a front dual cannon, a turret, and a photon torpedo launcher. However, they never use full impulse or cloak for getting around. Although they have more health than the other support ships, they are still very fragile and die quickly, often killed by the exploding enemy. On top of all this, they have a very long 3 or 4 minute cooldown. So once they are dead, they are gone for a long time. Once again, I would not want to use these pets exclusively. They are just nice to throw into the swarm and hope they do some damage, assuming they even get to the fight before it is over.

Fighters:These in my experience are the best pets. The only ones that are not broken on some level. Their damage is weak individually, but 4 fighters is about the same damage as 1 BoP. Except these guys move a lot faster, turn a lot faster, and have a 1 minute cooldown. If I can only use one pet type, it is these guys.

This is how I see it after about 2 - 3 weeks playing my carrier. Most of the pets are just not worth using on their own, and are only good for adding to the swarm. If they fix the bug that lets us use all of them at once, they also need to improve upon the pets themselves to make them worth using on an individual basis.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-27-2010, 09:29 PM
I'm doing great in my energy vampire setup when I get a cruiser or 2 to stick with me, people dont go for me cuz its takes too long to kill me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-27-2010, 09:33 PM
bumps all above post in response to the OP.

getting use to a BoP style after playing a Cruiser is one thing... learning to Vo 'Quv after flying a BoP 3 or 4 tiers, that takes even more getting use to. even going from a Ktinga and a VOr'Cha is a steep learning curve.

use the fact that you're slower than other vessels as an advantage. show up fashionably late to the party, and be the part of the group that turns the tides in your favor. this allows you to stock up on pets, and yes, they're only worth a crap if you have around 2 or 3 squads of each out.

personally, i love being Sci in a carrier, i think it was made for it. but at the same time, i've seen all classes tear it up in one. depends on your skills and the makeup of the group. know your role.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-27-2010, 09:42 PM
Yeah, after extensive Klingon PvP (BG5 Science, Captain 4 Science, Commander 5 Tactical), I think the carrier is often massively overrated. On my premades, I much prefer another BoP (the best ship in the game).
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