Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hi everyone,

Having already a ra5 sci toon speced in plasma (how foolish i was), i decided to test another uncommon build on a klingon eng toon (yet t4).

So i went for a bi energy specialization, phaser + disruptor, assuming that maxing those two skills out would be the same as maxing one admiral rank weapon energy type. As a side note, i also maxed out beams, cuz i wanted to test some dual energy loadout setups too like turret+beam banks. More info on this later.

I tried the setup on a t3 raptor, then on a t4 raptor (yet have to reach t5 for extensive testing at "end game"), both in PvP and PvE.

Console setup:

eng EPS console on t3, EPS console + ablative console on t4
tac 2*cannons consoles + 1 photon console

weapon setup:

1 phaser dc + 1 disruptor dc + 1 photon tube forward at t3, adding a second photon tube at t4 (have to test 3 dhc + 1 photon)
1 phaser turret rear and 1 disruptor turret.

BO setup (showing only current t4 setup)

1 commander tac BO: HYT 1, cannon rapid fire I + II, APO III
1 Lt tac BO: Tac team I, Attack pattern Beta I
1 Lt Eng BO: Eng Team I, RSP
1 Lt Sci BO: Jam Sensors I, ST II

Well, on PvP, i'm still very often first, second sometimes third on damage and heal scoreboard. So no changes when i was disruptor only, and taking out a noob (who doesnt reroute shield power) goes as fast as i was just one energy type speced, wich is merely a dozen seconds, from full shields to warpcore breach, while being self overbuffed with eng skills and tac BO skills.

On PvE, game is still on very easy mode, i have yet to measure exact time to kill a mob with a single energy type, and double energy type. Coming later, but what I can empirically say, its that the dps loss is still not noticeable.

Global feeling about a dis/phas spec, is that having both procs active on a target happens, not too rare, but not too common too, but proves that we are clearly "wasting" weapon procs with a single energy weap type. I wont lie: having the disruptor breach active when phasers proc disable target shields is rare, but happens, and is like jackpot when happening, damage to target speaking. So far, Cryptic didnt lied that dual energy type spec are viable, especially when using Attack Pattern Beta (wich stack dmg resist debuff on target), where cannons, turrets and torpedoes goes at insane dps.

I wish i could test a dual tetryon/antiproton spec, but due to the stupid skill cap, the tradeoff in skill point spending is not worth it, since there is many other important skills to max out too.

More is coming later, i'm still testing it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-28-2010, 03:05 AM
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-28-2010, 03:07 AM
*reserved for ulterior testings after respec patch*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-28-2010, 03:15 AM
The first character I made has phaser, tetryon and plasma energy weapons all maxed and I'm at RA5. As an engineer I'm also sitting in a nice cruiser for comfort and to last a while in combat. I use plasma beam arrays because i figure if anyone is using plates or shields with resists they will go with phasers or the current flavour, antiproton. With that setup I can do just as much damage with plasma as I can with the others.

Surely a dual weapon type will do less damage than one type. The reason I say that is that on my second character, a tactical officer, I specifically only put points into phasers, cannons and lastly antiproton which I don't have yet. On the tactical consoles I've got 4x phaser energy +30 consoles but if you switch to dual weapons you either lose damage by not maxing out its potential with consoles or by using different console types. I know you might not do that on your setups but if you're talking maximum damage that's what I would, and do, go with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-28-2010, 04:59 AM
Yup, you will loose some damage over a single weapon spec. But ihmo, since the damage difference isnt really noticeable, it only affect high end raiding pve. And since there isnt any high end raiding pve yet...

As for PvP, common sense would dictate that the more damage you do in a short time, the better it is. This is partially true, especially in this game. Sustained dps builds are very viable, burst dps builds too. The bi (even tri) weap spec is clearly on a sustained dps build setup, altough being able to have some nice dps peak when one or two weapons proc in the same time. And i find that using Attack Pattern Beta is a real must for such multiple energy builds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-28-2010, 05:43 AM
you say you arent getting top damage with the dual weapon type, while i have been getting top damage in pvp by using plasma dual heavy cannons with tactical console for plasma damage, not cannon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-28-2010, 05:52 AM
Msxing out 2 energy weapon types gives you 3 high dmg fitting options instead of one.

IE: Tetryon/disruptor maxed build.

You can go:

All tetryon

All disruptor

Mix of both.

Training a single type of energy type gives you only 1 option.

PS: Having 2 types gives you sumnmat to do when you hit RA 5 as you need multiple extra turrets/beams ect and multiple extra consoles for each type of build available :p.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-28-2010, 06:41 AM
Dyonas imho hit the problem: it's not much a problem of skills especially if you fly an escort and thus don't need many SP in engy/science skills). You can max both disruptors and phaser losing almost anything. The problem is that you lose damage from the consoles... "General" consoles give LESS bonus of a single type console (also they're much harder to find, especially at high ranks), and mixing "phaser" and "disruptor" tactical consoles still give you less dps overall. It is true that, if you can afford the expense and the skill points, you could then go full phasers OR full disruptors for max dps, but I honestly can't see why you should train both of them anyway.

Going mixed is going to give you less dps. The only reason I could see to going mixed types is for damage resistance. In pvp it is useless though, since disruptor/phasers resistance is on the same console. And mob resistance... C'mon, do we need more firepower against mobs?

So imho, while it's not "gimping" yourself, it still "nerfing" your potential for some, unneeded, flexibility.

Now, if the weapon procs were more frequent I can see that it could become useful, especially since most weapon procs do not stack with themselves. As it stands right now, the proc chance is so low that you hardly proc at all. Having to worry about "overproccing" is far from my mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-28-2010, 09:27 AM
Procs arent so rare (even if it doesnt happen every fight), and it is not uncommon to have both procs at same time, since the disruptor debuff last pretty long. That's why i wanted to see how procs are interresting or not (having, as stated above, a single plasma speced toon already) tactically speaking.

And using only 1 dis turret and dc + 1 phaser turret and dc, i can see both proc happenning not that often, but still noticeable.

The ideal loadout would be 3 cannons consoles instead of 2 dedicated energy type console, but in this setup i use dual photon torp, and, proc or not proc, the devastating alpha strike is still as powerful as a single energy type alpha strike. The loss is merely like having one less point in a given energy type weapon (ie having 8/9 dis instead of 9/9). So using it with more guns would make it even more obvious about those "wasted" procs on single energy type spec. Altough i cant say dual spec is the way to go, its a matter of playstyle too.

I'm testing it so far with an eng toon on a t4 raptor (and probably stick to a t5 raptor when i hit RA), and ihmo its the best class to get most output of this setup with the awesome eng exclusive EPS self/friendly buff (it is like having an Energy Siphon III without having to "waste" a slot for it), and APB damage resist stacking debuff.

And about resist type consoles, yes sometimes i have met some guyz who seemed to use phas/dis resist console or ablative hull, but i know that using such console doesnt fit in many builds, and some who could use it prefer to have a + weap console, especially tac pilots, rsp is more an issue than a guy who have a better resist

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