Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-28-2010, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great_Milenko
EDIT: Im NOT purposefully trying to be misleading between the title and the actual content of the thread, It was originally going to be a joke based off of this thread:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=129619
which is titled "Fail on trying to make people think the game is dying"
I was just gonna takt that original thread and modify it to have it say the opposide. Then I started doing the research and decided to make it serious instead. I guess I forgot to change it :p

I added the above. Now, can you constructively show me what parts you think are nonsense?
Just because you disagree isnt a reason
on a side note:


If youre gonna disagree, do it withing the ruleset plz, thx.
I didn't violate any rules or guildelines of the forum. I also did not verbally abuse or otherwise attack anyone. I fail to see why you are trying to passive agressively attack me with rules I didn't break.

I simply stated my own opinion that I felt it was non-sense, mostly because I view the idea of "fail" differently than you do. Your idea of failure is that it is not entertaining to you...my version is the economic profitability of said product, which will continue to grow based on past MMO strategies. I have a post somewhere that says more on it...I will dig it up later.

Lastly, I stand by my comment. The thread will be a bunch of "nuh uh you're wrong!" posters and "Kudos bro I have the same opinion you do!" What more can you expect from an opinion post...no matter how long.

You said it yourself, this is all opinion, thus subjective...the part that I take offensive is the attempt to make it seem somewhat based in fact by your attempts to validate your opinion as some sort of truth or up for debate. Opinions are not debatable, and difficult to even have a discussion about.

Afterall, you are entitled to them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-28-2010, 09:51 AM
I didnt "passive agressive" attack you. I merely posted those as noone seems to read them anyways.

I was experssing my opinion. You disagree. Good to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyias View Post
You said it yourself, this is all opinion, thus subjective...the part that I take offensive is the attempt to make it seem somewhat based in fact by your attempts to validate your opinion as some sort of truth or up for debate. Opinions are not debatable, and difficult to even have a discussion about.
I didnt. I noted in the thread:

Quote:
The following is my opinion, unless backed by posted evidence.
BECAUSE ppl here have the habit of screaming all over dissenting arguments that its just the posters opinion unless theres facts there. SO, attempting to head that off to start with, I posted that. But it appears posting that has caused it anyways :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-28-2010, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great_Milenko
EDIT: Im NOT purposefully trying to be misleading between the title and the actual content of the thread, It was originally going to be a joke based off of this thread:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=129619
which is titled "Fail on trying to make people think the game is dying"
I was just gonna takt that original thread and modify it to have it say the opposide. Then I started doing the research and decided to make it serious instead. I guess I forgot to change it :p

Id say wall of text, but I DO use paragraphs and punctuaion (although not always correctly lol) so Ill just say this is a long post. I will not provide a TLDR. Reading is good.
plus, technically, posting TLDR is trolling

Im not trying to sound elitist or anything, Id like people that might actually be interested to read the thread rather than skipping to the end and asking for a summary.
This ISNT a troll (its not trolling to disagree with you), and ist isnt "bashing the game" either. Its an assessment of the situation. Well, it has become one. It was originally intended as a joke but it became more serious in tone once I started doing the research on it.

The following is my opinion, unless backed by posted evidence.

Some people just love Cryptic/Atari and state the game is fine that its "Its Star Trek its not goin anywhere" bla bla.

Then why did they drop the price and do the free 90 days three weeks after it launched? Thats a first in MMO history that I know of (to drop the price three weeks after launch - not to drop the price at all - I see this point get sidetracked plenty in these arguments). The 90 free days this close to a launch definately is a first, Ive seen enough of that concession.

Launching more incomplete than any other MMO Ive (personally) ever seen didnt help their survival chances either. MOST other MMOs that IVE seen (please note the IVE part. listing games I wasnt involved in the beta of wont help your argument here) launch with more than one faction with an acceptable level of content (I realize that "acceptable level of content" is subjective, but its generally agreed upon from what Ive seen that the Klingons didnt have it). Klingons were meant to be PVP focused, NOT to be PVP ONLY. The devs have said as much. MMOs (successful ones) nowadays usually launch with at least SOME end game content and more than 80 hours of play time (not counting replayable missions).

In another thread, someone asked if there was any other MMO that had launched with only one viable faction. Nearly everyone that replied said LOTRO. I clarified the question, asking "What MMO that had originally meant to have more than one faction, launched with only one faction?" I never saw an answer. THIS didnt help the game.

The ever upopular skill cap. They designed the skill system WITHOUT a cap in mind, them slapped an arbitrary cap onto the systm (just before launch). Im not sure the official reason for it, but personally I think it was because it would have been harder for thm to design higher end content that everyone will have a fair shot at when thy cant accurately predict the power that they will have at the level they need to be to DO said content. This creates an issue where it makes certain skills at end level useless, as you dont have skill points enough to flesh out the required related skils.

It DOESNT help either when people go "it was rushed get over it" either. The more fail "rushed" games that come out (that suceed) that people just accept the way they are because "this is normal for an MMO" and DONT get upset over, the lower the industry standard becomes. Positions that "whining" and "crying" doesnt help the game is flawed in that the devs have told us that reviews arent going to be what they look to in determining the direction of this title, they HAVE however, told us that WE are going to determine the direction of the game. They look to the FORUMS to see what is a hot button issue with the fans of the game then they determine what they want to do about this. How many times have you seen Dev posts in User created threads saying "this is a great idea, Im gonna pass this along to the design staff" or "Craig". How often in any other MMO do you see that happening? (see? I CAN be positive) That shows theyre reading the forums and paying attention (even to the "whiners" and "cry-ers").

This IMO is the worst launch Ive seen in an MMO yet. This is NOT "normal for all MMOs now". I was there for Fallen Earth's beta and launch, and they had all SIX factions, all with different starting areas, ready at launch, and that was an independant company with a unknown IP.

Atari isnt Atari by the way. They'd probably rather that you not know this, but they got bought out by Infogrames, who then rebranded themselves Atari to capitalize on Atari's well known brand name.

Add to this the financial issues Atari seems to be having. Atari is in fairly serious trouble financially. You can see this by googling "atari financial reports" or looking here (as there was a thread where Zoot and nekollx compiled this info: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=125881

The annual reports that Im finding, even from 2009/10, arent positive. Their posting more losses than anything else http://corporate.atari.com/MT-3.34-e...l%20report.pdf

In addition, the state of the pre launch items that were given out - specifically the ones that were missing (I could care less that theyre replaced early on or not - Fallen Earth is the only MMO Ive ever seen that gave you an actually USEFUL pre order item, and they restricted that to one character only.) did not earn them any style points.

Add to that the wonderful PR move of giving new players 90 free days (please do note I dont really care about the sale, that was just an example earlier), essentially slapping all the people that were sticking with you in CB/OB/launch in the face and telling them they arent as important to you as the new people coming in now. The fact that theyve been entirely quiet ever since this, with the exception of a statement (ive heard of but not seen myself) of "we understand your concern and will tell the right people" is unacceplable to most people. "its thew weekend" isnt an acceptable excuse either. I read this in another thread but I like the point so Im gonna use it here "If the servers went down friday, you wouldnt accept an answer of 'its the weekend, wait until Monday and we'll fix it". Ill bet the devs/GMs/mods/suits have "emergency contact" info on each oter an ill definately bet they all can talk to each other over the phone and cxome up with a united front and an answer. This isnt the old days, where you could go off on a weekend and it was acceptable that you were unavailable to get ahold of because you might not have a phone (and THATS even a stretch). EVERYONE has email now, cell phones, land lines, text devices. Its practically unthinkable that there is NO WAY to contact them because "its the weekend"

The apologetic types and the fantypes of Atari/Cryptic say that the "whiners/Criers/rabble rousers" are the minority. The other side say THEY are the minority. Honestly, I believe that BOTH extremes are the minority. I do believe that most of the people is this game arent posting on the forums; that theyre happly playing the game (or that theyre unhappily leaving the game). Atari/Cryptic NEEDS to do some kind of in game polling to determine what THOSE people want from the game bwefore thty make any kind of drastic changes to the game because of the "silent majority" (imo) a percentage LIKE THE GAME. that percentage may be upset when the game changes without input from thm. They might not as well, as they might be used to it from other games by now.

Personally, Im going to be asking for a refund come Monday of my LTS and sub monthly. Ive personally lost faith in Atari to be around for a long term amount of time. IF Atari WERE to fail (assuming the game doesnt fold without their parent company) Id personally doubt that the LTSes would xfer to whoever the new parent company is, and Ill be damned if IM gonna pay $240 for a game only to have to resub later because Atari went down.

I WAS going to close with the trollish last line from the original thread, but Ill say this instead:
This game IS in trouble. You can choose to SEE it or not thats up to you, but just because YOU CHOOSE not to see it doesnt make it not there.

Now; I wait for the flames to roll in, as its inevitable that they will
I am not as good with words as you but I completly Agree with you im not saying I am going to stop playing I am a hard core trekkie I still play armmada 1&2 alone with Voyager elight force yes they completly blow as far as games go But I have them none the less. As far as Atari being InfroGames they are the ones responsable for Bridge commander and Legacy BTY NEVER WORKED CORRECTLY STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. If they do get a new parrent company PLZ Cryptic DO so Infrogames Blow big Bull balls. You need someone like Blizzard to be the parrent company or even just the codeing company Blizzard made WOW successful they can fix STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-28-2010, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyias View Post
Lastly, I stand by my comment. The thread will be a bunch of "nuh uh you're wrong!" posters and "Kudos bro I have the same opinion you do!" What more can you expect from an opinion post...no matter how long.
You seem to be assuming that the whole thread is opinion based. This tells me you stopped reading at the part that said "unless posted evidence is there" or w/e lol I cant remember atm.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-28-2010, 10:00 AM
Very well written. Easy to read. I hope we don't loose you too soon OP. It was like reading something from the days of the old STO boards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-28-2010, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrani View Post
Very well written. Easy to read. I hope we don't loose you too soon OP. It was like reading something from the days of the old STO boards.
Im currently a lifer, but come monday, Im going monthly. Like I said, its too big a risk now that I know the financial situation they are in.

OP Edit:
Quote:
As I have just learned they are currently in a 30 million dollar lawsuit over a supposed breach of contract concerning DDO. THAT isnt any kind of good news either.
http://kotaku.com/5346251/turbine-ro...-atari-lawsuit
Yeahm Im not too sure on the last part og the line. It doesnt sound right :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-28-2010, 10:18 AM
Good Stuff, thxs for the write up
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-28-2010, 10:30 AM
Yeah, I dunno if it would have been a brilliant idea to give this to Blizzard.

CCP would be a good idea to me if I had any waith in their ability to make a game that isnt corupt
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-28-2010, 10:33 AM
lol you haters lost in this thread
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=129619
so you just started a new one.

LOL at you all
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-28-2010, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbleskin View Post
lol you haters lost in this thread
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=129619
so you just started a new one.

LOL at you all
please, prove the numbers wrong then, rather than "LOOK I BEETED U LOL @ U"
And I only ever read deep enough into you thread to think up the idea to write this one so dont pat yourself on the back too hard
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