Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Death Penalty=more grief
02-28-2010, 10:50 AM
Adding a death penalty now with the current state of PVP unbalance and the bugs in the PvE system would just add more grief to an already frustrating game. If their goal is to slow down the leveling process until they add more content, well its too late. Half the population is already RA5. And by the time any DP hits we'll be looking at over 80% RA5. This is looking like a catch 22 for the devs here.

They launched way too early because Atari threatened to pull the license, while at the same time offering a 20million bonus for releasing on time. What is any company to do in this case. Don't believe me, check the wall street journal. There is an article about it. So there is no end game and no start middle or end game if your klingon. Be honest, do you really want to pay to play the PvP part of this game only?


It's pretty obvious that they cut most of the content when that new movie came out. I mean there were screen shots of Romulus, Earth (no idea why earth is gone) Klingon, and Cardassia home worlds. But then the movie came out and CBS handed the game to another developer to "fix". And now we have the game on time but nothing to play. 3 races fully cut from the game and Romulus is blown up?

Question: What happens when the next movie comes out and they bring back the borg? or blow up earth or Risa or something equally un-star trek like to make money? This whole game could be out the window but it'll be too late to change anything. They should have stuck to the original story line, at least we would have something to play at RA5.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-28-2010, 11:26 AM
a page on this very section shows this well:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=125823
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 3
02-28-2010, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptWarpass View Post
Adding a death penalty now with the current state of PVP unbalance and the bugs in the PvE system would just add more grief to an already frustrating game. :

Wait you have seen the patch notes for the changes already?, can you link them please cos all i have seen is this:

Craig Zinkievich

we are looking into finding a meaningful way to give players a deeper sense of loss when something bad happens. But we want it to feel right, rather than just like an arbitrary penalty.



Now that sounds promising to be but im gonna wait until i see what it is exactly they are going to do.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 4
02-28-2010, 12:13 PM
They do seem to be really gfood at promising things to be coming Soon(tm)

It will be interesting to see it they ever pull them off
Lt. Commander
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# 5
02-28-2010, 12:44 PM
except exploiting goes up as penalties mount, this has been shown in many games so this is just inviting more.

Do we trust Cryptic to be the first MMO to get this right? Wishful thinking on the Pro-DP side.
Lt. Commander
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# 6
02-28-2010, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slarus View Post
except exploiting goes up as penalties mount, this has been shown in many games so this is just inviting more.

Do we trust Cryptic to be the first MMO to get this right? Wishful thinking on the Pro-DP side.
I spent the last few minutes trying to think of an example of how people exploit losing rank , skill points, or getting rewarded for performing better....

I can think of several games that have death penalties, and not one exploit of these systems....


I can however think of numerous examples where people are exploiting having no penalty: simply killing themselves to win battles and get loot, using respawn as a method of wearing down an opponent, and just to grief other people and post it to YouTube to get celebutard points....

So I'm asking if you can provide an example where players exploit a death penalty to benefit themselves.... (sincerely, I just can't think of one)

...and I'm noting that in this game *alone* there are several examples of numerous people exploiting the *lack* of a death penalty....

PS: I don't care for socio-economic PvP, and am still really on the fence about a death penalty...so I have no qualms if you can point to an example...
Lt. Commander
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# 7
02-28-2010, 01:10 PM
There is no upside to "no death penalty" ... there never has been, in any game, and never will be.

A game hasn't been written where players didn't exploit the fact there was no death penalty.

That said, and as a proponent of a death penalty ... if Cryptic brings a death penalty into this game before they fix things like spawning you in the middle of 12 battleships in a Fleet Action, there's going to be hell to pay.

This damned game is the laziest POS in the world when it comes to stuff like that ... PvE and PvP. And they were lazy about it because there was no death penalty ... what did it matter?

Well, before they make it matter, they better fix their game spawning, and in particular get rid of the "You die because I, the Dev that made the scenario, thought it would be funny to spank you, since it doesn't matter anyway." And they better fix the scaling when you enter a scenario, then your team-mate(s) DC and you are not alone in an instance scaled for 3 or 4 ... or even 5 people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-28-2010, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by someGit View Post
I spent the last few minutes trying to think of an example of how people exploit losing rank , skill points, or getting rewarded for performing better....

I can think of several games that have death penalties, and not one exploit of these systems....


I can however think of numerous examples where people are exploiting having no penalty: simply killing themselves to win battles and get loot, using respawn as a method of wearing down an opponent, and just to grief other people and post it to YouTube to get celebutard points....

So I'm asking if you can provide an example where players exploit a death penalty to benefit themselves.... (sincerely, I just can't think of one)

...and I'm noting that in this game *alone* there are several examples of numerous people exploiting the *lack* of a death penalty....

PS: I don't care for socio-economic PvP, and am still really on the fence about a death penalty...so I have no qualms if you can point to an example...
It doesn't make sense and you'll never find one thing if the game is easy and there is no punishments why do you need to cheat? Whereas if there is say perma-death like EVE with zerging em masse with smaller weakers ships and lower skilled pilots, it happens, look into why Ultima Online created the shadow shard realm...griefers and exploits, the numerous exploits in Everquest like using maxed out level 40 monks to pull high level mobs to reduce raid wipes. And STO? zerging, but not one person can prove it happens fluidly, with instanced missions its nearly impossible to prove it is happenning much less in great numbers.
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Posts: 120
# 9
02-28-2010, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zepath View Post
There is no upside to "no death penalty" ... there never has been, in any game, and never will be.

A game hasn't been written where players didn't exploit the fact there was no death penalty.

That said, and as a proponent of a death penalty ... if Cryptic brings a death penalty into this game before they fix things like spawning you in the middle of 12 battleships in a Fleet Action, there's going to be hell to pay.

This damned game is the laziest POS in the world when it comes to stuff like that ... PvE and PvP. And they were lazy about it because there was no death penalty ... what did it matter?

Well, before they make it matter, they better fix their game spawning, and in particular get rid of the "You die because I, the Dev that made the scenario, thought it would be funny to spank you, since it doesn't matter anyway." And they better fix the scaling when you enter a scenario, then your team-mate(s) DC and you are not alone in an instance scaled for 3 or 4 ... or even 5 people.
And not one point you can really prove, so thanks for the opinion but exploits and revolts against DPs are very strong. WoW raids now have in raid repairs, why? the wipes made people not want to raid so they lightened it, which is counter to your assertion. The truth is ALL developers fall for your complaints and add a DP so a game has not been written with no DP to exploit so it can't be proven.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-28-2010, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slarus View Post
It doesn't make sense and you'll never find one thing if the game is easy and there is no punishments why do you need to cheat?
If I understand this right, then I would point to the Ramming Speed exploits people had been using to score top honors in Fleet Actions....


Quote:
Originally Posted by slarus View Post
Whereas if there is say perma-death like EVE with zerging em masse with smaller weakers ships and lower skilled pilots, it happens, look into why Ultima Online created the shadow shard realm...griefers and exploits, the numerous exploits in Everquest like using maxed out level 40 monks to pull high level mobs to reduce raid wipes
That sounds like "training" to me... How does that exploit a death penalty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slarus View Post
And STO? zerging, but not one person can prove it happens fluidly, with instanced missions its nearly impossible to prove it is happenning much less in great numbers.
This sounds more like gank squads to me (if you mean in a PVP context, which I'm unclear about in what you said)... Which is one reason why socio-economic PVP stinks imho... But keep in mind, you can't even get into PvP events unless you are a proper level range...

I guess I don't see any of this having any connection to having a death penalty at all.... Killing lowbies to grief them is a valid concern... But the only example I see of that in STO are cases where people a *killing themselves* to grief others... So they are in reality exploiting having *no death penalty* and instituting one might actually make some of them think twice...

I understand the griefing aspect, but the main griefing in STO is connected to there being no price in suiciding for hell of it...
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