Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
So DP? Aka the Death Penalty.

No, no ,nonono...Yes, yes, yesyesyes.

People that say No your safe the character you are now in the game is safe your ship is safe your tribbles are safe.

People that say Yes your going to get hurt your going to have to make a new character your ship may go boom for real and yes we don't know what the DP is but them poor tribbles may have to go!

If the dev's can pull that off in the right way (yes I'm saying it has to be done my way but for all I know their way is better) everybody WINS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-01-2010, 12:39 PM
And what sort of modification to the game, regarding DP, do you suggest exactly?!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-01-2010, 12:44 PM
What you basically said was, "Some people think there shouldn't be a death penalty and some people think all criminals should have their limbs cut off and die in excruciating pain."

What you should have said was, "Some people think there shouldn't be a death penalty and some people think there should be a death penalty."

Also, I doubt anything anyone does will make everyone happy. We're much too opinionated for that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
And what sort of modification to the game, regarding DP, do you suggest exactly?!
Its a big question to ask really the Dev's have to run a Survey on what should happen like:

What should happen to all my credits?

All gone!
Some % gone like all types 50% half gone.
Keep all!

What should happen to my Rank?

All the way back to Ensign!
Drop by a number of ranks E.g. two ranks Admiral Commander
Stay the same rank!

What should happen to your ship and so on till there is a clear agreement to what is fair for most and like I said this will not affect anyone that don't want it so no need for you to worry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5 The fairest option...
03-01-2010, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVoyage
Its a big question to ask really the Dev's have to run a Survey on what should happen...
Well, since each and everyone of us has his/her own ideas about the DP, ranging from "I don't want a DP" all the way to "I want to be able to l00t someone's blown-up ship and steal their items", I doubt Cryptic will be able to go through the results of the survey you propose and come up with something that satisfies everyone.

So, essentially, I think the best DP would be to allow people to choose their own in-game DP! The trick to that however, is to force us to live by (or die by) our promises. In essence, the DP system should work sort of like the Difficult Slider so before we enter a mission, we can select a DP. If we die during the mission, that DP is applied to our captain/ship/crew, but if we survive the mission without dying, the reward-part of the DP is applied and we get a bonus reward based on the DP itself.

For example, how about a DP of -10% your Energy Credits with every death, but if a mission is completed without dying even once, the players get a +20% increase to their Energy Credits? (The numbers of course are arbitrary, and Cryptic will no doubt have to data-mine, adjust and re-adjust these numbers based on their findings of how often people die etc.)

In other words, the fairest DP would be a DP that lets the player choose their own Risk vs Reward based on a list of options given to us by Cryptic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-01-2010, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
Well, since each and everyone of us has his/her own ideas about the DP, ranging from "I don't want a DP" all the way to "I want to be able to l00t someone's blown-up ship and steal their items", I doubt Cryptic will be able to go through the results of the survey you propose and come up with something that satisfies everyone.
But thats just it we can have both "I don't want a DP" so no need to ask that plus a web based survey would tally all the results and yes the problem is its not reliable but its the only way it can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post

In other words, the fairest DP would be a DP that lets the player choose their own Risk vs Reward based on a list of options given to us by Cryptic.
That seems just wrong in a odd way but that would work for bugs in the game like enerny sensor contact where you warp in and die before you can get away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7 Today is a good day to die!
03-01-2010, 02:32 PM
If you disagree with me counter my points please. I have a perverse love of rational discussion.

The problem is that each side has wants desires behind the mechanic of having a dp or no dp that the other isn't seeing, acknowledging or trying to solve. Its like the difficult/not difficult argument.


What is it each side really wants? Modified behavior. DP advocates want challnge, they want people to behave rationaly, they want to punish the weak, the stupid and the ignorant. (If I'm missing the motivations let me know) A sense of satisfaction for excellence a more perciptible difference between repeated failure and that excellence.

People who don't want DP want random grouping to be encouraged with bad players, new players, unknown players, non-gamers, the disabled and roleplayers as well as those who aren't optimized. As well as players who aren't scared to get dirty or risk themselves or their limited healing/buffing resources to help a stranger out of danger.

So the question is... How can a DP make bad players good players, reward excellence without punishing casuals, the non-optimised, roleplayers, newbies, people who enter pick up groups, have disabilites or wish to be focused on helping others rather than watching their own bottom while timidly orbiting enemies at 12km waiting for somone to take the plunge.

We already have a more severe Death Penalty or two in game already in PVP the death penalty is defeat. In PVE look at the crystaline entity encounter as it is currently and what the social and practical result is. What do I mean? Players being hit by shards or having shards led into them by other players heals the boss and prolongs the fight, in some cases indefinetly.

So how can you bring the two sides together?

1. Many new in depth optional 'performance' turotirals for space, ground, group combat, skill point spending, weapon functionality, exchange use, social leadership/ettiquete, hell even rp.

2. Scoring performance, tracking streaks in kills/missions. Life bonus rewards.

3. Skill point debt is an option if its included please add achivements/badges to turn the insult and injury into progess.

4. Rated and unrated missions. Enough said if you are in a rated version of a group mission its serious business if you aren't no penalty or risk.

PLEASE help me figure out how to bridge this gap. Its infuriating to think we may end up with the oppression of a blunt DP or that those unfortunate DP advocates have frustrated, bluish organs due to the lack of punishment for failure or reward for exceptionalism.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-01-2010, 02:46 PM
Insead of yes or no can i say maybe until i see the patch notes.

I do know that avoiding percieved negative thing makes them strugle harder in the first place to avoid it and gives ppl a buzz of success and pleasure when they suceed.

So i am leaning towards yes more than no in that regard but im reserving my definitive vote until i get a definitive answer to what im voting for.:p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-01-2010, 04:58 PM
Heres a number of reasons a DP in STO wont work based on how the game is presently set up. Lets start with PvE first.

1. reduction in SP for death= Due to lack of content and the fact you cant repeat story line missions a player who isnt a pro mmo player would find he has to grind exploration missions repeatidly to get caught up because some story line missions are only given out at certain levels and if your between them your que will be empty.

2. anything that may cause you to loose energy credits= once again newbies will suffer greatly here and WILL result in more players buying energy credits from gold spammers. we all hate the spammers and know someone who has used them. If to much importance is put into ingame money We will never get rid of the spammers.

3. risk vs reward= Yes everyone feels they should be rewarded for a job well done or flawless victory this should be easy but its not. There is a ballence to concider here. Once again the lack of content suggest you cant get bonus SP. You will level way to fast and be doing romulan missions as an admiril. More very rare can drops. This can cause issues for PvP due to the fact the Klingons dont get the chance to PvE for the good stuff.

4. a difficulty slider= due to lack of content this wouldnt work either because once again you would be an admirl by the time you get to romulan space.

Lets look at PvP

1. having a foe being able to loot you= look at # 2 ubove it explains everything because it will come down to that real quick.

2. anything a griefer or griefer fleet can exploit to make someone misrible and never PvP again

3. Lack of PvE content for klingons= Because of this a risk vs reward system wont work because only the Feds will have the best loot from missions. They will have to buy their rares and very rares which leads to #2 ubove again.

Adding a DP at this point would out ballance the game. Keep in mind this post is based on the game mech's as they presently are and adding such things as a DP Cryptic would have to rethink everything about the game to reballance everything. If your for the DP and can prove me wrong please explain in detail your argument and where im wrong. Oh and the whole "We need a challenge" thing. Is not a viable argument. Because of the ballance issues i have shown ubove.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-01-2010, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frhom
I
So the question is... How can a DP make bad players good players, reward excellence without punishing casuals, the non-optimised, roleplayers, newbies, people who enter pick up groups, have disabilites or wish to be focused on helping others rather than watching their own bottom while timidly orbiting enemies at 12km waiting for somone to take the plunge.
The enemies difficulty could be changed on the fly that would take case of that problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frhom
I
We already have a more severe Death Penalty or two in game already in PVP the death penalty is defeat. In PVE look at the crystaline entity encounter as it is currently and what the social and practical result is. What do I mean? Players being hit by shards or having shards led into them by other players heals the boss and prolongs the fight, in some cases indefinetly.
PVP could be less severe as escaping is harder to do but a option that could work in both PVP and PVE is like Emergency Warp but only one at a time and max at any time and to get more in a following way so it will still be defeat but no DP but if you go again without an other way to get out of it for you to use the normal warp button you get the DP .
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=129994

The crystaline entity needs higher class ships and people who play with out a DP will respawn and heals the entity any way.
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