Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Full Turret build out
03-03-2010, 12:19 PM
I know a few people have tried a full turret build out has anyone measured the damage done vs say cannons or Beams to see how viable it really is?
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Posts: 120
# 2
03-03-2010, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike111
I know a few people have tried a full turret build out has anyone measured the damage done vs say cannons or Beams to see how viable it really is?
DPS is a sub par at best. If you can drop shields so long as no heals the person your fighting. Its really only good for the really large ship's that can't turn at all, and even they your going to be helping your team more with skills then DPS.
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# 3
03-03-2010, 12:44 PM
I've done the calculations. I've maxed out both Starship Beam Weapons and Starship Cannon Weapons and I've tested this on a ship with four turrets and one with four beams (2 fore 2 aft). Under normal power levels, each of my turrets does approximately 60 DPS less than an equivalent beam array, resulting in a net loss of 240 DPS overall for using turrets instead of beams. However, during combat, half the time, only two of my beams are firing, resulting in a loss of over 500 DPS from the two inactive beams. So, on the average, I find that using all turrets results in greater overall DPS.

However, I'm using this on an Oracle-class Deep Space Science Vessel. On a more maneuverable ship, if you can keep all of your beams firing, then perhaps it would be more useful to use beams instead of turrets. But for my purposes, I find it much more suitable just to use turrets so I don't have the worry of needing to maneuver this lumbering barge in battle. XD
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# 4
03-03-2010, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike111
I know a few people have tried a full turret build out has anyone measured the damage done vs say cannons or Beams to see how viable it really is?
With the recharge time of all turrets being 1 sec and the 1 sec firing time, you can only effectively fire two of them alternately, unless you have the Cannon: Rapid Fire buff active. Since CRF is a Lt Tac power, the only ships that can have more than one of this power are those that can use cannons. The reason you'd need more than 1 of this skills is the duration is only 15 seconds, with a recharge of 45 seconds and multiples have a shared cooldown of 20 seconds. Therefore, with just 1 LT Tactical station on those big, slow, hard to turn cruisers, you could only get full effect from more than 2 turrets 1/3 of the time. Even on escorts (which includes the BoP) running 2 copies of same or differing levels of CRF, that'd be 15 sec on, 5 sec off, 15 sec on, 10 sec off, so only 2/3 of the time to get full effect. Adding a 3rd would only reduce the off time by 5 sec, making it an alternating 15 on 5 off or only on 3/4 of your firing time.

If you're running say, a T5 cruiser with all 8 weapons slots (4 fore 4 aft) mounting turrets, that's 15 sec of firing all 8 and 30 sec of only firing 2, due to the limit of only one CRF1.

If the goal is to counter Feedback Pulse in a cruiser, consider mounting 2 mine launchers in the aft, 2 turrets in the fore, with a 2 beam arrays fore and aft, or even 3 beam arrays fore 1 afta and having the turrets split fore and aft so you can set both turrets to autofire. This would give decent damage output, maintain wider arcs and with only 4 beams vs 6 or 8, you'd take much less damage from FBP, especially if you don't use overloaded beams. While you'll still be taking FBP damage, this should keep it at a reasonable enough level repair it as it comes in, especially when using 2x Hazard emitters, 2x Engineering Team and 2x Aux to Structural for the hull repairs.

All that said, it can be fun to run an escort with turrets and just laugh when folks hit ya with tractor beam, because you're still hitting them with all the turrets when CRF is active. In otyher words, you just made them waste their tractor beam on a ship that doesn't care about firing angle, thus saving the DPS of your teammate that is running dual heavy cannons.
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# 5
03-03-2010, 12:55 PM
I dont want to let go of all my beams just because an ability is OP.
However, i think 4 beams 3 turrent/4 or torp is not bad setup.
But as cruiser in T5 speccing in cannons and beam weapon... takes too much skillpoints for me. I only have them in beams atm. And i think thats the case with most cruisers. So i just hope that they fix it, so i can enjoy my beams. Its also belongs with star trek and the federation So i dont like to change it, because i also got 6 blue disruptor beams and those werent cheap. i am tactical, so just think what happens when use all my attack paterns alpha+beta+go down fighting. It hurts alot with FBP than. And if i think about using beam overload im dead.
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# 6
03-03-2010, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenixzor
I dont want to let go of all my beams just because an ability is OP.
However, i think 4 beams 3 turrent/4 or torp is not bad setup.
But as cruiser in T5 speccing in cannons and beam weapon... takes too much skillpoints for me. I only have them in beams atm. And i think thats the case with most cruisers. So i just hope that they fix it, so i can enjoy my beams. Its also belongs with star trek and the federation So i dont like to change it, because i also got 6 blue disruptor beams and those werent cheap.
I don't think it needs to be "fixed"... turrets are meant to be more useful for ships that are slow to maneuver. What's broken about it?
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# 7
03-03-2010, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frellthat View Post
I don't think it needs to be "fixed"... turrets are meant to be more useful for ships that are slow to maneuver. What's broken about it?
I am not talking about turret, people are going all turrent because of FBP and that needs to be fixed. We should focus on the problem.
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# 8
03-03-2010, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frellthat View Post
So, on the average, I find that using all turrets results in greater overall DPS.
Nice Did you do the calculations with or without rapid fire? I'm guessing not if you're in a science vessel?
Rapid fire effects turrets as well as cannons. So everynow and again my escort lights up like Vegas and starts spitting out fire. It's just fun to watch! I hope that improves the DPS too but if not I think I'll stick with turrets anyway - just to see things light up!
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# 9
03-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monthar
With the recharge time of all turrets being 1 sec and the 1 sec firing time, you can only effectively fire two of them alternately, unless you have the Cannon: Rapid Fire buff active. Since CRF is a Lt Tac power, the only ships that can have more than one of this power are those that can use cannons. The reason you'd need more than 1 of this skills is the duration is only 15 seconds, with a recharge of 45 seconds and multiples have a shared cooldown of 20 seconds. Therefore, with just 1 LT Tactical station on those big, slow, hard to turn cruisers, you could only get full effect from more than 2 turrets 1/3 of the time. Even on escorts (which includes the BoP) running 2 copies of same or differing levels of CRF, that'd be 15 sec on, 5 sec off, 15 sec on, 10 sec off, so only 2/3 of the time to get full effect. Adding a 3rd would only reduce the off time by 5 sec, making it an alternating 15 on 5 off or only on 3/4 of your firing time.

If you're running say, a T5 cruiser with all 8 weapons slots (4 fore 4 aft) mounting turrets, that's 15 sec of firing all 8 and 30 sec of only firing 2, due to the limit of only one CRF1.

If the goal is to counter Feedback Pulse in a cruiser, consider mounting 2 mine launchers in the aft, 2 turrets in the fore, with a 2 beam arrays fore and aft, or even 3 beam arrays fore 1 afta and having the turrets split fore and aft so you can set both turrets to autofire. This would give decent damage output, maintain wider arcs and with only 4 beams vs 6 or 8, you'd take much less damage from FBP, especially if you don't use overloaded beams. While you'll still be taking FBP damage, this should keep it at a reasonable enough level repair it as it comes in, especially when using 2x Hazard emitters, 2x Engineering Team and 2x Aux to Structural for the hull repairs.

All that said, it can be fun to run an escort with turrets and just laugh when folks hit ya with tractor beam, because you're still hitting them with all the turrets when CRF is active. In otyher words, you just made them waste their tractor beam on a ship that doesn't care about firing angle, thus saving the DPS of your teammate that is running dual heavy cannons.

CRF with 9 skill has a recharge of 30 seconds not 45, also turrets do not share a GCD so you can fire all of them at once (need to spam space bar til they add full autofire). tbh the only ship i could really see a full turret build really helping is the vo'quv carrier while doing support build but that's my personal opinion.
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# 10
03-03-2010, 01:19 PM
For Klingon ships I generally do cannons front and turrets rear and that works well combined with Rapid Fire.

With the Vo'Quv and its awful turn rate, I've been playing around with turrets vs beams and I'm convinced that beams are superior DPS, even with Rapid Fire. The problem is that turrets seem to get treated like cannons and they do terrible DPS beyond about 5k. It wasn't as noticeable on the Battle Cruisers / BOPs because I'd need to be within 5k for my front cannons anyway but on the sluggish Vo'Quv it's pretty apparent that my damage numbers suck with turrets most of the time.


Basically, you CAN blow the crap out of someone at 2km with a load of turrets and Rapid Fire. Crazy damage numbers. But if you're flying a dumptruck and can't dictate the range of combat, you're better off with beams.
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