Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-05-2010, 01:32 PM
It would be nice, ya.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-05-2010, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
It'd be kinda confusing to have ships upside down. Your monitor might show that their right shields are weak, but if they're upside down, you'd actually have to move to the left to hit them. On some compact ship designs like the Defiant it might be difficult to tell if they're straight or upside-down.

Sounds silly, I know.. but that'd be a legitimate problem as a point of confusion.
To me it sounds like a valid strategy. If someone can't swap port and starboard because the ship is--compared to your ship--upside down they deserve to be blown up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-05-2010, 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy View Post
In all the many many many hours of footage in the tv shows and movies you can count the number of times that a ship pitched more than 60 degrees on one hand and they have all been linked already. You aren't going to get it - Star Trek works on a galactic plane, ships do not have more than roughly 60-70 degrees of pitch, and when you kill your engines the ship stops.

Now, there have been numerous times that the ships *moved* up or down - with respect to the galactic plane it would be a "hover" motion and we can not do that. I do agree there that we really should be able too. I also wouldn't mind being able to choose to go at a steeper angle by diverting power to engines. We have only seen that motion in extreme circumstances so it *is* possible and it is reasonable to assume that in all but maybe one case that I know of they probably had everything into engines and weapons.

Still, it's probably not going to make you happy either - that means you have little to no shields, repair rate, and your weapons are gimped to do that. But in this case there is an existing license to follow and it doesn't really allow it except under special circumstances. It's part of the situational awareness you are going to have to have with an escort and something cruisers (who are heavy on the beam weapons) are going to exploit whenever they can. The lack of firing arc is the balance for the high damage and equal effectiveness on shields and hulls - we are deadly in a 45 degree firing arc.


The real reason is because of the limitations of the special effects processes used. Why they felt the need to keep that visual style once the use of film cameras and plastic models was replaced with digital technology defies logic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-05-2010, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
That's a huge Crock, dragged out as a pathetic excuse for the limitations of the game engine.
Not canon movement? How can you say that? Just because you thing that you see a ship in a TV series always travelling in one plane is nothing more than a relationship between the camera and the ship. How do you know which direction it is travelling with no reference?
Not canon is an insult of an excuse. The fact is the game engine is designed for a 3d world with a ground plane and it's not capable of handling models rotating fully because they are gimbal locked.

Not canon? Give me strength.
This could be it. The engine might not allow this degree of movement.

And an additional note to the "Not in canon" statement. TNG Part 1 of the Two part series finale. The refit Enterprise under the command of Riker performs a vertical climb at a 90 degree to the science ships plane to attack the klingon ship. Vertical movement is in Canon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrann View Post
Flying straight up or down... is that so hard?
I did PvP though i find it too mainstream, i did enjoy it abit... untill i had someone sitting right above me with phasers blasting me slowly to bits, because it was impossible to bring my front mounted cannons on target. why? bacause you can't face straight up or straight down... whats the point of cannons then?
Cryptic realy needs to fix that problem... IMHO

Shamrann out
This limitation is by design in order to make things less confusing for the average player. The devs are considering steepening the degree however, which will make things easier for cannon users.

Until then, always make sure to have a beam array set up to back you up in these kind of circumstances.


Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-05-2010, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
The fact is the game engine is designed for a 3d world with a ground plane and it's not capable of handling models rotating fully because they are gimbal locked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRichar
This could be it. The engine might not allow this degree of movement.
Though the gimble lock part is true, the engine is capable of straight up and straight down movement. It's in Champions Online, which uses the same engine. The degree limitation is intentional and changes to the limit are being discussed already.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-05-2010, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackavaar View Post
This limitation is by design in order to make things less confusing for the average player. The devs are considering steepening the degree however, which will make things easier for cannon users.

Until then, always make sure to have a beam array set up to back you up in these kind of circumstances.


Yep. I fly with dual beam arrays in the rear and rely on those as I spiral up. They do a notable amount of damage on their own with 115+ weapon power- good for setting bad guys up for the eventual forward-arc alpha strike.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-05-2010, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
It'd be kinda confusing to have ships upside down. Your monitor might show that their right shields are weak, but if they're upside down, you'd actually have to move to the left to hit them. On some compact ship designs like the Defiant it might be difficult to tell if they're straight or upside-down.

Sounds silly, I know.. but that'd be a legitimate problem as a point of confusion.
Awh, you mean pvp might require thought? Ya, thats definitly a bad idea
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-05-2010, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
once again. The ship is seen to move in relation to the camera. Which technically is not there. It's just a viewpoint. If the viewpoint remained fixed then the ships would be seen to move in all manner of directions in order to reach a point in 3D space. The fact of the matter is that it was just TV and cheaper to not have extensive effects. The limitations of TV made the movement what it was. The limitations of the engine make the movement what it is in STO.
It goes against all known science and common sense. Ig the engine had been written for the game instead of the game to fit the engine then we could have easily had proper spacial movement. After all, David Braben managed it quite simply on a BBC Micro 26 years ago.

It's bad enough that this can never be fixed but to pass it off as a game design is just insulting.
If it's never seen in the tv shows than it's not canon. I don't want to fly straight up, that would lessen the Star Trek feeling for me and that's why I play this game. And by the way, how do you know the viewpoint isn't fixed in the tv shows? I never saw a starbase or ships next to it upside down. That would be so
un-Star Trek
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-05-2010, 02:18 PM
they tried allowing us to go straight up and down ... it made the engine do very bad things (tm). so they had to limit it.

in terms of design-descisions, it's the way cryptic seems to operate. rather than fixing the problem, they compromise and let us suffer the consequences.
like how all in-door maps are twice the size they should be (bridges, stations, ship-corridors etc. etc)... the close quarters made the camera funky, so they made doors and corridors two stories tall instead. and then put fixing the underlying problem on ice.
</rant>
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