Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-31-2010, 02:42 AM
Asterix since when is having a tank-class in a MMO a bad thing?

And also consider that this game has no tanking/agression-skills, so the all-in-survivability-tank will do crap damage and therefore not have the pleasure of drawing the fire on himself, except maybe from the minions around the boss he was able to catch by flying in first. Plus currently all the end-bosses have ways to bypass shields to a certain extend.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-31-2010, 04:21 AM
Uhm, is this another "nerf sci" thread, or are there really some overpowered sci abilties which people stack on regular basis ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-01-2010, 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roter_Panda
Asterix since when is having a tank-class in a MMO a bad thing?

And also consider that this game has no tanking/agression-skills, so the all-in-survivability-tank will do crap damage and therefore not have the pleasure of drawing the fire on himself, except maybe from the minions around the boss he was able to catch by flying in first.
K, guess I'll have to explain it again. This time I'll type slower and louder

It isn't a tanking class thing. It has nothing to do with tanking classes, although it does remove the need to have a tank, so that sort of nullifies the first bit.

What it is is a buff class thing.

The devs want to make content with a certain level of difficulty. That means they need to be able to anticipate roughly how much damage we can soak, how long it'll take us to kill the mob, and so on. And this being the casual game that it is, they want us to have a certain degree of freedom.

And that is where the problem lies.

The difference in how much damage the players takes varies drastically when you combine several of these buffs, due to how science skills scale and how shield damage reduction buffs work.

Because of that, the devs cannot balance risk versus reward and maintain the casual flexibility that they want.

If I can dive into my EQ experience, EQ was never intended to have raids. The toughest content in the game at launch was a pair of dragons, both of which were intended to be single group encounters. The problem? People brought two groups. So they made them tougher. And people brought even more. So the devs had to make them tougher still, balanced them against about 30 people, 5 groups worth, because that's about the limit the game could support before lag caused diminishing returns. And that, by the way, is why MMOs have raids, because players tried to make the hardest content in the game easy.

The devs want a certain level of difficulty. The players want things as easy as possible, follow the path of least resistance. Therefore, if stacking 2 people set up to stack shield buffs can gimp something, players will do that (hence why you often see "required" classes in other MMOs to do certain things). And if the devs don't want that something gimped, either they have to balance it so that you have to stack those buffs, it bypasses shields, or the buffs in question get nerfed, probably in some way that adds diminishing returns.

Quote:
Plus currently all the end-bosses have ways to bypass shields to a certain extend.
Precisely the point and exactly part of why it will eventually change. To make the game balanced, the devs would have to have any future end game bosses be able to nullify shields to some degree. It limits the devs options. Sooner or later, the devs will want shields to play part in one of those encounters. Most likely, the only reason it doesn't for the Borg is because the lore has them draining shields, not because they actually thought about the impact of shield buff stacking.

Now, you can say it isn't necessary. And so on.

But I can tell you this. It is going to happen. it is inevitable. The devs are going to eventually want shields to be part of a high end encounter. And when they do, they won't like what shield damage reduction buff stacking does. And they'll change it. Probably to work something more like hull resists, in terms of how it has DR and how it stacks.

And, for that matter, checked out how much new science consoles give versus the old ones? Half the skill. As I said, something was going to be changed. It was inevitable. Don't particularly like that change, but the fact that something about it was going to change, well, called that in my first post in this thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-01-2010, 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Uhm, is this another "nerf sci" thread, or are there really some overpowered sci abilties which people stack on regular basis ?
Well, I think I sorta hijacked it from the PvP focus it had.

And it isn't so much a nerf sci thread as me saying that how shield damage reduction (so both sci and engineering) works will be changed in the future due to high end PvE content, in a way that will reduce its power. It will happen sooner or later.
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